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While I agree that a single person reducing their meat and gasoline consumption means nothing, a single person not reducing said consumption probably makes thin

While I agree that a single person reducing their meat and gasoline consumption means nothing, a single person not reducing said consumption probably makes things worse. Why? Because it can become a personal spur towards getting something meaningful done: which means collective political action to completely upend the out of control machine we are refusing to fix. By all means, deprecate gesture politics, but only if you are doing something else more meaningful. Otherwise it comes close to being triple-layered hypocrisy.

jakear 6y ago
I think it’s about the network effects. Your not eating meat won’t make a difference, but if you tell people about it and why and the idea spreads, collectively you all might make a difference. This is why these sorts of people tend to be known as liking to talk about their lifestyle choices. They know they don’t mean much, but if they convince 5 people and they all convince 5 more, etc, it will spread faster than some viruses we might be familiar with.
- shafyy 6y ago
  I agree. But in the end, we need to make products that are better overall than their "polluting" counterparts. For example, for many a Tesla is a better car, regardless if it's better for the environment. We need to get there with food, too. E.g., can producers like Impossible and Beyond make burgers that are tastier, healthier and cheaper than their meat counterparts? I think they can, and in the end the masses will only change their behavior with products and services like this. Of course, we still need action on a political and economic level such as a carbon tax.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
As I see it, everyone has a limited psychological budget. If they use up that budget unplugging appliances, they're less likely to e.g. protest in favor of cap and trade. On a societal level, we also have a collective "attention budget". Every news story about plastic straws is one that's not discussing a carbon tax. A sufficiently strong carbon tax, by the way, would ultimately have the effect of causing everyone to buy more local food, at least in proportion to its carbon impact.
- gen220 6y ago
  Agreed. There’s a related concept useful for explaining or understanding this phenomenon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory We use it pretty colloquially at work to talk about the impacts of a bad night of sleep or a late night: “I’m missing a couple spoons today, sorry if my code reviews are a little off”.
- quadrangle 6y ago
  That sounds like the claims about using-up-willpower. It's questionable and not at all proven. It's also possible that, like muscle-building, we get more the more we use it. People who become thoughtful about their energy consumption think about impact more, think about global issues, and then are more likely to protest in favor of environmental legislation. There are limits, we can't attend to too much at once. But maybe we can actually see two ways of living where one has very limited chances for dedicated attention and another offers many hours of available dedicated attention. Be physically well, use good attention habits etc. Much of what you're saying amounts to priorities. We should indeed figure out our top priorities and then figure out the most effective means to get there. Makes me think of http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/ http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to...

jakear 6y ago

I think it’s about the network effects. Your not eating meat won’t make a difference, but if you tell people about it and why and the idea spreads, collectively you all might make a difference. This is why these sorts of people tend to be known as liking to talk about their lifestyle choices. They know they don’t mean much, but if they convince 5 people and they all convince 5 more, etc, it will spread faster than some viruses we might be familiar with.

shafyy 6y ago
I agree. But in the end, we need to make products that are better overall than their "polluting" counterparts. For example, for many a Tesla is a better car, regardless if it's better for the environment. We need to get there with food, too. E.g., can producers like Impossible and Beyond make burgers that are tastier, healthier and cheaper than their meat counterparts? I think they can, and in the end the masses will only change their behavior with products and services like this. Of course, we still need action on a political and economic level such as a carbon tax.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

As I see it, everyone has a limited psychological budget. If they use up that budget unplugging appliances, they're less likely to e.g. protest in favor of cap and trade. On a societal level, we also have a collective "attention budget". Every news story about plastic straws is one that's not discussing a carbon tax. A sufficiently strong carbon tax, by the way, would ultimately have the effect of causing everyone to buy more local food, at least in proportion to its carbon impact.

gen220 6y ago
Agreed. There’s a related concept useful for explaining or understanding this phenomenon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory We use it pretty colloquially at work to talk about the impacts of a bad night of sleep or a late night: “I’m missing a couple spoons today, sorry if my code reviews are a little off”.
quadrangle 6y ago
That sounds like the claims about using-up-willpower. It's questionable and not at all proven. It's also possible that, like muscle-building, we get more the more we use it. People who become thoughtful about their energy consumption think about impact more, think about global issues, and then are more likely to protest in favor of environmental legislation. There are limits, we can't attend to too much at once. But maybe we can actually see two ways of living where one has very limited chances for dedicated attention and another offers many hours of available dedicated attention. Be physically well, use good attention habits etc. Much of what you're saying amounts to priorities. We should indeed figure out our top priorities and then figure out the most effective means to get there. Makes me think of http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/ http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to...