6 ms·

cancel culture, as its commonly understood ("woke" scolds running well-meaning people out of public life) largely doesn't exist. There are a few high profile ca

by ahoy 6y ago

cancel culture, as its commonly understood ("woke" scolds running well-meaning people out of public life) largely doesn't exist. There are a few high profile cases of it happening to actual sexual predators, otherwise it's as ephemeral as Fox News hosts hyping fear over the "knockout game".

rglullis 6y ago
Would you tell that to JK Rowling and Martina Navratilova?
- untog 6y ago
  Edit: can’t delete my post but realised I have no interest in being a part of this conversation so deleting the text
  - mc32 6y ago
    She has the clout and independence that affords her that. Other people don’t enjoy that possibility.
    - untog 6y ago
      So why on earth cite her as an example?
  - rglullis 6y ago
    Cancel culture is not just that. It is the 21st century version of ostracism. She was not just "criticized" for it. You have industry-related websites now claiming to mention her only with hashtag #JKR. She's literally become "the one who shall not be named". Who knows what will come of any future project that she is working on. All of that for the very controversial opinion of "There is a word for 'people who menstruate' that the newspaper could've used" Also Martina. One of the first openly gay tennis players, an actual defender of women's rights, "canceled" because she dared to say that trans-women would have an unfair advantage and should not be put to play with biologically-born women. The audacity...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - DanBC 6y ago
      > Who knows what will come of any future project that she is working on. The future project is Ickabog, which continues its progress through publishing. Some staff tried saying they no longer wanted to work on anything by JKR, but their employer told them they had no choice and must continue to work on Ickabog or leave the company. All her books remain in print. All her merch is still being sold. The multimillionaire JKR has not been cancelled.
      - rglullis 6y ago
        Yet you are also refusing to use her name? Why is that? > The multimillionaire JKR has not been cancelled. It is not just who "gets cancelled" and who doesn't. It is about the threat. She is a multimillionaire with enough clout to survive this absurd backlash and to make her own gravity for her work if she needs to. Others aren't. Please let me know of any young and talented YA author that made any kind of "controversial" statement and still stayed around and I might start believing that cancel culture is not such a big threat as you seem to believe.
        DanBC 6y ago
        > Yet you are also refusing to use her name? What a baffling question. I genuinely have no idea what you're getting at. > It is about the threat. It feels weird that to talk about cancel culture you pick someone who's at no risk of being cancelled.
        rglullis 6y ago
        > I genuinely have no idea what you're getting at. I mentioned articles that declared would only mention her by initials to avoid calling her name, you followed that pattern. If it was not deliberate, it was an interesting coincidence. > It feels weird that to talk about cancel culture you pick someone who's at no risk of being cancelled. No one can deny the fact that JK Rowling and Martina Navratilova were more than "criticized" for their "opinions". They were misrepresented in their views to create attrition with some minority group, then coerced into getting some kind of apology for saying something that in no way entices animosity towards said minority and still after that get their work and professional relationships harassed to try to get them ostracized. This by itself is already is cancel culture, not the fact that people actually get canceled. It feels even weirder that you are trying to minimize the harm caused by cancel culture by pointing out the fact that someone survived it.
dageshi 6y ago
Jenna Marbles? Poor woman was practically having a mental breakdown on video.
- DanBC 6y ago
  Before she made her video there were a handful of twitter accounts, each with fewer than 100 followers, asking her to address her previous blackface video. There were no pile-ons; no one was calling for her to be cancelled; after her video (and indeed before it) people were praising her for her decision to make that video private 5(?) years ago and for her growth since then. If she was cancelled she cancelled herself.
danhak 6y ago
I believed this until this year. Then I saw it happen to a friend who is prominent in his niche industry but otherwise unknown. He was disgraced via Twitter and forced to step down from the firm he created for making some offensive jokes.
- davidgerard 6y ago
  That's very nonspecific.
  - danhak 6y ago
    That’s deliberate. I don’t want to identify my friend on this forum. I am disputing the parent’s assertion that “cancel culture” is limited to a few high profile cases. It is far more prevalent than that. The high profile cases are obviously just the ones that most people are aware of.
    - ChrisClark 6y ago
      Then without any more details we'll probably just assume "some offensive jokes" are actually horrible, it's the most common defense by people like that. "But it was just a joke!" "No Grandpa, you're just a racist." You're right though, it is a lot more prevalent than just high profile cases. But I also assume your friend deserved it.
      - eska 6y ago
        > we'll probably just assume "some offensive jokes" are actually horrible Don't speak for others. My personal experience is that women I never had romantic relationships with pretended that I raped them to get influence or money (once as a teen, once as an adult). Talking about this openly 3 friends have told me that similar things have happened to them. But I also won't give you specifics so you'll probably assume that we deserved it.
        newacct583 6y ago
typedef_struct 6y ago
Do the effects of it exist? In that it suppresses peoples' legitimate (non hateful) opinions? Then it exists.

by ahoy 6y ago

rglullis 6y ago

Would you tell that to JK Rowling and Martina Navratilova?

untog 6y ago
Edit: can’t delete my post but realised I have no interest in being a part of this conversation so deleting the text
- mc32 6y ago
  She has the clout and independence that affords her that. Other people don’t enjoy that possibility.
  - untog 6y ago
    So why on earth cite her as an example?
- rglullis 6y ago
  Cancel culture is not just that. It is the 21st century version of ostracism. She was not just "criticized" for it. You have industry-related websites now claiming to mention her only with hashtag #JKR. She's literally become "the one who shall not be named". Who knows what will come of any future project that she is working on. All of that for the very controversial opinion of "There is a word for 'people who menstruate' that the newspaper could've used" Also Martina. One of the first openly gay tennis players, an actual defender of women's rights, "canceled" because she dared to say that trans-women would have an unfair advantage and should not be put to play with biologically-born women. The audacity...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - DanBC 6y ago
    > Who knows what will come of any future project that she is working on. The future project is Ickabog, which continues its progress through publishing. Some staff tried saying they no longer wanted to work on anything by JKR, but their employer told them they had no choice and must continue to work on Ickabog or leave the company. All her books remain in print. All her merch is still being sold. The multimillionaire JKR has not been cancelled.
    - rglullis 6y ago
      Yet you are also refusing to use her name? Why is that? > The multimillionaire JKR has not been cancelled. It is not just who "gets cancelled" and who doesn't. It is about the threat. She is a multimillionaire with enough clout to survive this absurd backlash and to make her own gravity for her work if she needs to. Others aren't. Please let me know of any young and talented YA author that made any kind of "controversial" statement and still stayed around and I might start believing that cancel culture is not such a big threat as you seem to believe.
      - DanBC 6y ago
        > Yet you are also refusing to use her name? What a baffling question. I genuinely have no idea what you're getting at. > It is about the threat. It feels weird that to talk about cancel culture you pick someone who's at no risk of being cancelled.
        rglullis 6y ago
        > I genuinely have no idea what you're getting at. I mentioned articles that declared would only mention her by initials to avoid calling her name, you followed that pattern. If it was not deliberate, it was an interesting coincidence. > It feels weird that to talk about cancel culture you pick someone who's at no risk of being cancelled. No one can deny the fact that JK Rowling and Martina Navratilova were more than "criticized" for their "opinions". They were misrepresented in their views to create attrition with some minority group, then coerced into getting some kind of apology for saying something that in no way entices animosity towards said minority and still after that get their work and professional relationships harassed to try to get them ostracized. This by itself is already is cancel culture, not the fact that people actually get canceled. It feels even weirder that you are trying to minimize the harm caused by cancel culture by pointing out the fact that someone survived it.

dageshi 6y ago

Jenna Marbles? Poor woman was practically having a mental breakdown on video.

DanBC 6y ago
Before she made her video there were a handful of twitter accounts, each with fewer than 100 followers, asking her to address her previous blackface video. There were no pile-ons; no one was calling for her to be cancelled; after her video (and indeed before it) people were praising her for her decision to make that video private 5(?) years ago and for her growth since then. If she was cancelled she cancelled herself.

danhak 6y ago

I believed this until this year. Then I saw it happen to a friend who is prominent in his niche industry but otherwise unknown. He was disgraced via Twitter and forced to step down from the firm he created for making some offensive jokes.

davidgerard 6y ago
That's very nonspecific.
- danhak 6y ago
  That’s deliberate. I don’t want to identify my friend on this forum. I am disputing the parent’s assertion that “cancel culture” is limited to a few high profile cases. It is far more prevalent than that. The high profile cases are obviously just the ones that most people are aware of.
  - ChrisClark 6y ago
    Then without any more details we'll probably just assume "some offensive jokes" are actually horrible, it's the most common defense by people like that. "But it was just a joke!" "No Grandpa, you're just a racist." You're right though, it is a lot more prevalent than just high profile cases. But I also assume your friend deserved it.
    - eska 6y ago
      > we'll probably just assume "some offensive jokes" are actually horrible Don't speak for others. My personal experience is that women I never had romantic relationships with pretended that I raped them to get influence or money (once as a teen, once as an adult). Talking about this openly 3 friends have told me that similar things have happened to them. But I also won't give you specifics so you'll probably assume that we deserved it.
      - newacct583 6y ago

typedef_struct 6y ago

Do the effects of it exist? In that it suppresses peoples' legitimate (non hateful) opinions? Then it exists.