4 ms·

if you are good at market research / product market fit / good engineering and solving actual problems you will be EXTREMELY successful both with the big mgmt c

if you are good at market research / product market fit / good engineering and solving actual problems you will be EXTREMELY successful both with the big mgmt co's and working as a consultant yourself. Successful projects breads success and great word of mouth which I've found is the best way to get high margin business - word of mouth deals are generally not being shopped, the customer comes to you and wants to hire you. At at a big management co, if you are bringing in the deals - you are the god. I have however seen folks who are hired to do X, who then feel it's critical they disagree about Y, Z and Q. That is NO FUN for anyone because the right thing is sometimes to do what you were paid to do. For most managers when staff go on tangents it can be pretty tiring to focus them on actually delivering on even the imperfect solution that for whatever reason a client wants (not uncommon).

deleted 6y ago
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wbronitsky 6y ago
This “shut up and do what I tell you” mentality is remarkably similar to that of the management in the consulting firm I was in, and is a big reason I left. They hired experts, asked them to give their opinion, then ignored it and/or shouted it down when it didn’t conform to their previous expectations. I would then be told I was incompetent and that my opinion was not valid, always without evidence. Interesting to see the pattern here as well. I’m glad the attacks have gone from consulting partners to random anonymous commenters on the internet though.
- thoraway1010 6y ago
  A couple of notes. You may not have identified the product / market fit in terms of what McKinsey or others is actually selling. It really may not be the best product / best solution you are so intent on forcing them to sell. Sometimes it literally is political cover for mgmt to do something they (or sometimes even the board) WANTS to do. There is so much secondary level stuff here in terms of politics, job skilling or deskilling etc. I was part of a $10M deal (as the user unfortunately) which was SOO horrendous I became convinced it was just to spend out a govt budget line so a bunch of folks in govt got to go to some fancy training conferences. Truly ancient tech - you had to pin older OS / IE / Java versions to use the solution (no upgrades), but the buzzword bingo slides were amazing, and the agency using them liked them (at the top) so they were selling to the right audience (not actual users). The big mgmt co's have been very successful in moving the middle class out (focus is on creating a bunch of generally super highly paid execs, and then a bunch of "do what we tell you" workers who are generally poorly paid). So that "do what we tell you" ethos is there (and has resulted in $8B+ annual revenue!). The idea though is to lower the skill level of workers. IT / automation is now going to play a bigger and bigger part of that - so lots of additional growth opportunities for these folks. Middle class used to include the long tenured employees with experience and some levels of delegated decision making and corresponding pay (basically managers of various forms). Mailroom to boardroom days are over. "Production workers did not escape the whirlwind, as companies—again with help from consultants— stripped them of their residual management functions and the benefits that these sustained." You might find this interesting. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/how-mckinsey-destroyed-middle-class/605878/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/how-mckins... If you really think you can outdo these consulting co's go for it, it's a ruthless horrible game (lots of nice folks burn out trying to play it).
  - bob33212 6y ago
    Thanks for the info. This was very helpful, not totally unexpected though.
- bob33212 6y ago
  You should take that as a compliment. Being told that you are incompetent by "management" who doesn't understand the domain shows that they are afraid of you abilities.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

wbronitsky 6y ago

This “shut up and do what I tell you” mentality is remarkably similar to that of the management in the consulting firm I was in, and is a big reason I left. They hired experts, asked them to give their opinion, then ignored it and/or shouted it down when it didn’t conform to their previous expectations. I would then be told I was incompetent and that my opinion was not valid, always without evidence. Interesting to see the pattern here as well. I’m glad the attacks have gone from consulting partners to random anonymous commenters on the internet though.

thoraway1010 6y ago
A couple of notes. You may not have identified the product / market fit in terms of what McKinsey or others is actually selling. It really may not be the best product / best solution you are so intent on forcing them to sell. Sometimes it literally is political cover for mgmt to do something they (or sometimes even the board) WANTS to do. There is so much secondary level stuff here in terms of politics, job skilling or deskilling etc. I was part of a $10M deal (as the user unfortunately) which was SOO horrendous I became convinced it was just to spend out a govt budget line so a bunch of folks in govt got to go to some fancy training conferences. Truly ancient tech - you had to pin older OS / IE / Java versions to use the solution (no upgrades), but the buzzword bingo slides were amazing, and the agency using them liked them (at the top) so they were selling to the right audience (not actual users). The big mgmt co's have been very successful in moving the middle class out (focus is on creating a bunch of generally super highly paid execs, and then a bunch of "do what we tell you" workers who are generally poorly paid). So that "do what we tell you" ethos is there (and has resulted in $8B+ annual revenue!). The idea though is to lower the skill level of workers. IT / automation is now going to play a bigger and bigger part of that - so lots of additional growth opportunities for these folks. Middle class used to include the long tenured employees with experience and some levels of delegated decision making and corresponding pay (basically managers of various forms). Mailroom to boardroom days are over. "Production workers did not escape the whirlwind, as companies—again with help from consultants— stripped them of their residual management functions and the benefits that these sustained." You might find this interesting. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/how-mckinsey-destroyed-middle-class/605878/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/how-mckins... If you really think you can outdo these consulting co's go for it, it's a ruthless horrible game (lots of nice folks burn out trying to play it).
- bob33212 6y ago
  Thanks for the info. This was very helpful, not totally unexpected though.
bob33212 6y ago
You should take that as a compliment. Being told that you are incompetent by "management" who doesn't understand the domain shows that they are afraid of you abilities.