4 ms·

> we really haven't progressed that much outside of technology This would imply that the measure of progression / advancement is civility, and that we are goin

by zadler 6y ago

> we really haven't progressed that much outside of technology This would imply that the measure of progression / advancement is civility, and that we are going to progress and become more civil given more time. That seems to be a fallacy also, it may be that evolution does not optimise for civility at all, after all being civil is not going to help you to crush your enemies or attract a mate in this environment.

magicsmoke 6y ago
Evolution might promote civility in a similar way to peacock feathers through sexual selection. Civility implies that you have enough wealth and power to spare on luxuries even in a world of brutal competition. This allows you to attract more mates/immigrants which ultimately offsets the additional cost.
- Lio 6y ago
  Evolution is very slow: you.class == caveman.class
  - magicsmoke 6y ago
    Genetic evolution is very slow. Societal evolution can be very rapid at times. But similar models regarding reproduction, mutation, and natural selection apply in both cases.
danenania 6y ago
My understanding is that evolution optimizes for learning and adapting to the environment. We aren't 'programmed' to be either civil or violent, but to respond in the most advantageous way to the circumstances we find ourselves in. In a society full of dishonest people who are prone to violence, a person who tries to be honest, kind, and peaceful is at a huge disadvantage. But in a society where people are mostly honest, kind, and helpful, helping others altruistically is likely to pay off down the road, and violence or dishonesty are likely to get someone ostracized. Mating choices will reflect and perpetuate this--in a violent, corrupt society, the physically strong, cunning, and ruthless will be the most sought after. In a more altruistic society, people who produce the most value for others (and therefore receive the most favors in kind) will have the highest status. So evolution in this sense isn't really outside of our control. If we help each other and discourage violence, evolution will reinforce that, making society more peaceful and altruistic over time. On the other hand, if we make it so corruption and cruelty are the best ways to get ahead, people's behavior is likely get worse and worse.
- kinjba11 6y ago
  This reminds me of Evolution of Trust (https://ncase.me/trust/ https://ncase.me/trust/). A little way through the game you can see this play out over time. It's a great demonstration of how the winning strategy changes (or evolves) over time with different pressures.

by zadler 6y ago

magicsmoke 6y ago

Evolution might promote civility in a similar way to peacock feathers through sexual selection. Civility implies that you have enough wealth and power to spare on luxuries even in a world of brutal competition. This allows you to attract more mates/immigrants which ultimately offsets the additional cost.

Lio 6y ago
Evolution is very slow: you.class == caveman.class
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  Genetic evolution is very slow. Societal evolution can be very rapid at times. But similar models regarding reproduction, mutation, and natural selection apply in both cases.

danenania 6y ago

My understanding is that evolution optimizes for learning and adapting to the environment. We aren't 'programmed' to be either civil or violent, but to respond in the most advantageous way to the circumstances we find ourselves in. In a society full of dishonest people who are prone to violence, a person who tries to be honest, kind, and peaceful is at a huge disadvantage. But in a society where people are mostly honest, kind, and helpful, helping others altruistically is likely to pay off down the road, and violence or dishonesty are likely to get someone ostracized. Mating choices will reflect and perpetuate this--in a violent, corrupt society, the physically strong, cunning, and ruthless will be the most sought after. In a more altruistic society, people who produce the most value for others (and therefore receive the most favors in kind) will have the highest status. So evolution in this sense isn't really outside of our control. If we help each other and discourage violence, evolution will reinforce that, making society more peaceful and altruistic over time. On the other hand, if we make it so corruption and cruelty are the best ways to get ahead, people's behavior is likely get worse and worse.

kinjba11 6y ago
This reminds me of Evolution of Trust (https://ncase.me/trust/ https://ncase.me/trust/). A little way through the game you can see this play out over time. It's a great demonstration of how the winning strategy changes (or evolves) over time with different pressures.