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> SIMON: People need to be careful using the word genocide. Why do you think it's justified and important to use it now? > ZENZ: I have long argued that the at

> SIMON: People need to be careful using the word genocide. Why do you think it's justified and important to use it now? > ZENZ: I have long argued that the atrocity in the region is a cultural genocide, not a literal genocide. I do continue to believe that, generally speaking, the Chinese government does not intend to physically eradicate the Uighurs and Kazakhs, just to integrate, subjugate, dominate and assimilate them. However, this is coupled with a policy of ethnoracial domination, as the government has brought millions of Han Chinese settler in the regions with promises of high salaries, jobs and free housing. > The reason why now this has changed - we do need to probably call it a genocide - is quite simply because the evidence now, for the first time, very specifically meets one of the five criteria set forth by the United Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of Genocide from 1948, which specifically says the suppression of birth.

dleslie 6y ago
This is similar to what happened to indigenous peoples here in Canada. For the most part, and while there are clear and heinous exceptions, the intent was to wipe out indigenous culture and society. Because it wasn't gas chambers it's been harder to get the general population to recognize what was/is happening. Also, forced sterilization is still a thing, particularly outside of urban health authorities. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-lawsuit-could-expand-1.5102981 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-la...
- hkmaxpro 6y ago
  In Canada, it’s due to the lack of proper or informed consent, and a class-action lawsuit is trying to correct that. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-lawsuit-could-expand-1.5102981 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-la... In China, “[t]he population control measures are backed by mass detention both as a threat and as a punishment for failure to comply”: https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c And Uyghurs have to flee China just to speak out against this practice. Do you see a lawsuit coming in China? Huge difference.
  - dleslie 6y ago
    Canada had sterilization laws up to 1972; and the link I provided was to an article about that class action lawsuit. ;)
    - hkmaxpro 6y ago
      I don’t think it’s fair to compare China today with Canada almost 50 years ago. A lot of things have changed since then. Boston Marathon didn’t have women’s race until 1972. Our expectations today should be higher.
      - dleslie 6y ago
        The last residential school didn't close until the 90s. There are far too many communities without clean drinking water, let alone access to quality education and health care. We still struggle to maintain obligations regarding indigenous land rights and safe guarding indigenous culture. Our expectations today should be higher.
dirtyid 6y ago
> The reason why now this has changed - we do need to probably call it a genocide - is quite simply because the evidence now, for the first time, very specifically meets one of the five criteria set forth by the United Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of Genocide from 1948, which specifically says the suppression of birth. The timing for Zenz shift in opinion is very convenient. China removing family planning policy exemptions for minorities like Uighurs started back in 2017. The policy was proposed back in 2014 and saw some discussion among China watchers in the following years. This is not a new policy change, and one Zenz should be aware of for at least 5+ years. [1] https://time.com/4881898/china-xinjiang-uighur-children/ https://time.com/4881898/china-xinjiang-uighur-children/ [2] https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/08/chinese-official-floats-plan-to-stabilize-fertility-among-some-uighurs/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/08/chinese-official-floats...

dleslie 6y ago

This is similar to what happened to indigenous peoples here in Canada. For the most part, and while there are clear and heinous exceptions, the intent was to wipe out indigenous culture and society. Because it wasn't gas chambers it's been harder to get the general population to recognize what was/is happening. Also, forced sterilization is still a thing, particularly outside of urban health authorities. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-lawsuit-could-expand-1.5102981 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-la...

hkmaxpro 6y ago
In Canada, it’s due to the lack of proper or informed consent, and a class-action lawsuit is trying to correct that. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-lawsuit-could-expand-1.5102981 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-la... In China, “[t]he population control measures are backed by mass detention both as a threat and as a punishment for failure to comply”: https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c And Uyghurs have to flee China just to speak out against this practice. Do you see a lawsuit coming in China? Huge difference.
- dleslie 6y ago
  Canada had sterilization laws up to 1972; and the link I provided was to an article about that class action lawsuit. ;)
  - hkmaxpro 6y ago
    I don’t think it’s fair to compare China today with Canada almost 50 years ago. A lot of things have changed since then. Boston Marathon didn’t have women’s race until 1972. Our expectations today should be higher.
    - dleslie 6y ago
      The last residential school didn't close until the 90s. There are far too many communities without clean drinking water, let alone access to quality education and health care. We still struggle to maintain obligations regarding indigenous land rights and safe guarding indigenous culture. Our expectations today should be higher.

dirtyid 6y ago

> The reason why now this has changed - we do need to probably call it a genocide - is quite simply because the evidence now, for the first time, very specifically meets one of the five criteria set forth by the United Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of Genocide from 1948, which specifically says the suppression of birth. The timing for Zenz shift in opinion is very convenient. China removing family planning policy exemptions for minorities like Uighurs started back in 2017. The policy was proposed back in 2014 and saw some discussion among China watchers in the following years. This is not a new policy change, and one Zenz should be aware of for at least 5+ years. [1] https://time.com/4881898/china-xinjiang-uighur-children/ https://time.com/4881898/china-xinjiang-uighur-children/ [2] https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/08/chinese-official-floats-plan-to-stabilize-fertility-among-some-uighurs/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/08/chinese-official-floats...