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> First, the skateboard and the upper body could be built separately. Maybe not at the same place (a handful of skateboards will fit perfectly in a shipping con

> First, the skateboard and the upper body could be built separately. Maybe not at the same place (a handful of skateboards will fit perfectly in a shipping container for completion thousands of miles away). I hate to be critical, but this really reminds me of a 1950s "visions of the future" piece more than a practical design choice. For example, the skateboard is not a new concept [1], and there are reasons you don't see it. Modular design really only shines for low-volume production (or a large combinatorial space). When you are doing 10s of millions of units per year, as the auto industry does, modularity often gets thrown out in deference to volume/cost. Also, distributed manufacturing is a huge pain, why would you ever want that? See Boeing's experience with the 737 supply chain. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Hy-wire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Hy-wire

deleted 6y ago
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rootusrootus 6y ago
In addition, the idea that manufacturers can just plop any old body on top of the skateboard is a bit of a pipe dream. Crash safety is hugely important, and it isn't the skateboard that hits other cars/people/objects. So the integration will need to be very tight and engineered as a whole. Just like it is today, even if we call it a chassis.
mbreese 6y ago
Not knowing anything about how a car is actually built... how does the "skateboard" concept differ from what VW has in their modular platforms? For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform It is a difference of just how independent the "skateboard" is from the top?
- csours 6y ago
  Think of MEB as a set of abstract parts with default implementations. If you want to change the whole vehicle, you only have to change certain parts. Make these pieces bigger, these pieces smaller, etc. A true skateboard would be a static implementation of the frame and propulsion system, with defined interfaces for the "top hat" (industry term for the body of the vehicle).
- miahi 6y ago
  A car platform is a set of shared components and design concepts, but not an actual physical thing (a "skateboard"). Same platform cars can have different engines, wheelbases, suspension types and setup, transmission types and so on. Most modern cars use the monocoque/unibody type of body, where the body and frame ("skateboard") are combined into one, because of weight and safety (it can be made to bend in a more controlled manner, usually with different type of materials bonded/welded together). The frame+body is better because it's easier to repair (many unibody crashes are not economical to repair because a proper repair to the same strength as the initial car would need dismantling half the car).
darepublic 6y ago
I may be naive but I would love to see modular design. I just don't expect it from Apple. Also figure if there were an apple car there would be no right to repair for ordinary mechanic shops
notahacker 6y ago
The 'skateboard' really isn't a new idea, it's the early motoring era approach where you bought the rolling chassis from a chassis manufacturer and then hired a coachbuilder to design and build suitably elegant bodywork to your personal specification on top. Then we got vertically integrated mass production which cost less and built cars which handled a lot better as they'd been designed as a unit with bodywork and chassis having complementary characteristics. "I wish my sports car also had the ability to handle like a family car or a commercial vehicle if you slapped the right bodywork on," said no modern driver ever. Calling it a skateboard (bah! so twentieth century) doesn't change the fact it's the nineteenth century approach to doing things....
- tomatotomato37 6y ago
  I was about to say, I have no idea what the difference between this idea and some ladder chassis platform was supposed to be. The Ford Panther platform was used on like 8 different models across 3 marques, including a police car. The thing is companies don't really like using modular chassis like ladders anymore is because anything that can't use the roof for structural support is heavy and flexes like mad.
  - Lineup 6y ago
    That's on the mark! It's also pretty clear that manufacturers did want to utilize this as it reduces tooling costs a lot. But, in attempts to increase fuel efficiency/reduce weight(cost) they lost rigidity and went to unibody. Composite & battery technology are enabling these types of designs again. As for the lead comment, it's true that the exact same 'skateboard' isn't going to perform, but keep the board and swap 'trucks & wheels'. There's your sports car cum minivan. It's about the chassis not the rolling

deleted 6y ago

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rootusrootus 6y ago

In addition, the idea that manufacturers can just plop any old body on top of the skateboard is a bit of a pipe dream. Crash safety is hugely important, and it isn't the skateboard that hits other cars/people/objects. So the integration will need to be very tight and engineered as a whole. Just like it is today, even if we call it a chassis.

mbreese 6y ago

Not knowing anything about how a car is actually built... how does the "skateboard" concept differ from what VW has in their modular platforms? For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform It is a difference of just how independent the "skateboard" is from the top?

csours 6y ago
Think of MEB as a set of abstract parts with default implementations. If you want to change the whole vehicle, you only have to change certain parts. Make these pieces bigger, these pieces smaller, etc. A true skateboard would be a static implementation of the frame and propulsion system, with defined interfaces for the "top hat" (industry term for the body of the vehicle).
miahi 6y ago
A car platform is a set of shared components and design concepts, but not an actual physical thing (a "skateboard"). Same platform cars can have different engines, wheelbases, suspension types and setup, transmission types and so on. Most modern cars use the monocoque/unibody type of body, where the body and frame ("skateboard") are combined into one, because of weight and safety (it can be made to bend in a more controlled manner, usually with different type of materials bonded/welded together). The frame+body is better because it's easier to repair (many unibody crashes are not economical to repair because a proper repair to the same strength as the initial car would need dismantling half the car).

darepublic 6y ago

I may be naive but I would love to see modular design. I just don't expect it from Apple. Also figure if there were an apple car there would be no right to repair for ordinary mechanic shops

notahacker 6y ago

The 'skateboard' really isn't a new idea, it's the early motoring era approach where you bought the rolling chassis from a chassis manufacturer and then hired a coachbuilder to design and build suitably elegant bodywork to your personal specification on top. Then we got vertically integrated mass production which cost less and built cars which handled a lot better as they'd been designed as a unit with bodywork and chassis having complementary characteristics. "I wish my sports car also had the ability to handle like a family car or a commercial vehicle if you slapped the right bodywork on," said no modern driver ever. Calling it a skateboard (bah! so twentieth century) doesn't change the fact it's the nineteenth century approach to doing things....

tomatotomato37 6y ago
I was about to say, I have no idea what the difference between this idea and some ladder chassis platform was supposed to be. The Ford Panther platform was used on like 8 different models across 3 marques, including a police car. The thing is companies don't really like using modular chassis like ladders anymore is because anything that can't use the roof for structural support is heavy and flexes like mad.
- Lineup 6y ago
  That's on the mark! It's also pretty clear that manufacturers did want to utilize this as it reduces tooling costs a lot. But, in attempts to increase fuel efficiency/reduce weight(cost) they lost rigidity and went to unibody. Composite & battery technology are enabling these types of designs again. As for the lead comment, it's true that the exact same 'skateboard' isn't going to perform, but keep the board and swap 'trucks & wheels'. There's your sports car cum minivan. It's about the chassis not the rolling