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Given this introduction: > I've re-posted this many times, because it's fundamental to what it means to me to be an American. I was thinking I was in for some

by c3534l 6y ago

Given this introduction: > I've re-posted this many times, because it's fundamental to what it means to me to be an American. I was thinking I was in for something uplifting. Instead I got: > In 1946, Congress reneged on FDR's promise. Filipino solders who fought for us and their families were not given their promised citizenship, let alone benefits. ... They waited 44 years, until after most of them were dead. This story is horrible. We betrayed our WWII allies, betrayed people who were rightfully American citizens, in all likelihood just because they were the wrong race. Everyone in this thread is acting like this story is inspiring. I feel like everyone has gone crazy that they think this is supposed to make me feel patriotic. This is an example of America at its ugliest and most prejudiced.

deeg 6y ago
You aren't wrong. There were probably some veterans who were too bitter to accept the late grant of citizenship. The government finally made the step forward--apallingly late--but it's still a step forward. Let's make sure we keep taking those steps.
verroq 6y ago
America eventually doing the right thing is America at its worst? Why so much self-hatred?
refurb 6y ago
If your standard for a country is perfection, you're going to be sorely disappointed, again and again. And in fact, I can guarantee you that you hold opinions today that will be looked up with disgust by people in 100 years.
rayiner 6y ago
This story isn’t about Truman and the other people who reneged on the promise in 1946–who were all dead by 1992. That’s a very self-centered way to look at this. This is a story about immigrants who loved America so much that they proudly accepted citizenship when it was belatedly conferred to them. What kind of country engenders such love and devotion even in the face of such slights?
- c3534l 6y ago
  Its great that they didn't hold a grudge, but I don't see why I should be moved by it. Of course they were happy, they were finally being given what they were promised. A prisoner being exonerated of a crime they were falsely accused would probably be ecstatic, but hearing the story of someone being falsely convicted hardly engenders feelings of pride in our justice system. I don't see why it should be different in this case. There was no uplifting story about how someone managed to change immigration by fighting for what he believed or anything like that. The story was just "we backstabbed you and 44 years they were happy when we finally removed the knife. Yay us!" I can't muster any positive emotions in this story. I can't see why anyone would feel proud of this.
  - p1esk 6y ago
    Yes. Asking people to literally give their lives for you on the battlefield, promising citizenship to those who survive, then betraying them until most are dead. Not much to be proud of here, no matter how you spin it.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    > Its great that they didn't hold a grudge, but I don't see why I should be moved by it. Of course they were happy, they were finally being given what they were promised. This is an extremely shallow take. These men emigrated to the US at a time when Filipinos were legally American nationals. They were not citizens, but were already entitled to permanent residency, and their kids were already citizens by birthright. Citizenship was purely symbolic. Why would they be happy to accept a symbolic gesture from a country that wronged them? Maybe it was what they experienced in America in the intervening 40-something years? As an immigrant, I think many native born people often overlook what America is or what’s great about it. My mom explained to me today what she thinks is great about America. It’s that Americans will stop at a red light in an intersection at 1 am even if the streets are totally empty. America isn’t a collection of policies and programs. It’s people, connected by a culture, norms, beliefs, practices, and ideals. It’s a legal system and a political system that is more than just the outcome of that system with respect to any particular case or policy. And those things are all tremendous blessings. People who stop at red lights on empty streets at 1 am are a blessing. You really cannot understand it if you’ve never really lived without those things. I can totally see why these people who built a life in America would be happy to accept that symbolic gesture of citizenship 46 years later, even if it was long overdue.
phlakaton 6y ago
Who was ugly and prejudiced in the story? The narrator? The Chinese-American judge? Certainly not the veterans waiting for citizenship? They are all America too.
- tenuousemphasis 6y ago
  The people who reneged on the promise of granting the Philippine soldiers citizenship.
  - phlakaton 6y ago
    And by focusing on them and declaring this story to be a horror story, we miss out on an important part of the story too. This isn't just of academic interest to me. A lot of my friends and family didn't feel much like celebrating America's birthday this weekend, and I completely understand why. But wallowing in that sadness and anger leads to defeatism. I would rather see us embrace the totality of America's history, so that we lift up what we ought to do more of, and remember that, in our attempts to build a better country, we do not fight alone.
jonathannat 6y ago
I think the moral of the story is that America is flawed, however, it eventually does the right thing, as well as other great things. And that's why it engenders so much love/hate. I think it's very relevant to today's events, where people wants to "cancel" a person, just because of one or two things they did wrong (which may have just been the norm in their days). This is a slightly disturbing trends, as we can supposedly only use perfectionists and saints as role models (are there any?), instead of humans who are naturally flawed. I am proud of America, the country that produced a great democracy, defeated Nazi Germany - which raised hell on earth and held concentration camps, sent people to the moon, heralded in 70 years of relative peace, spread democracies around the world, launched reusable rockets that landed back safely, and is in the process of confronting China - another country that raised hell on earth and held concentration camps - after realizing its fault.
- p1esk 6y ago
  defeated Nazi Germany Correction: helped defeating Nazi Germany. Compare the number of American soldiers who fought in WW2 to the number of Soviet soldiers.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    Slight correction: The USA made and shipped most of the materiel that Britain and Russia used (Ironically, Stalin supplied Germany via rail with around 1/3 of their supplies until the day of the invasion. Part of the reason that Germany lost was they never fully-mobilized their economy for war. For example, they were still making passenger cars until the end. Love to hear conversations between Hitler and Speer about that.)
umanwizard 6y ago
“We” didn’t betray anyone, unless you were in Congress in 1946.

by c3534l 6y ago

deeg 6y ago

You aren't wrong. There were probably some veterans who were too bitter to accept the late grant of citizenship. The government finally made the step forward--apallingly late--but it's still a step forward. Let's make sure we keep taking those steps.

verroq 6y ago

America eventually doing the right thing is America at its worst? Why so much self-hatred?

refurb 6y ago

If your standard for a country is perfection, you're going to be sorely disappointed, again and again. And in fact, I can guarantee you that you hold opinions today that will be looked up with disgust by people in 100 years.

rayiner 6y ago

This story isn’t about Truman and the other people who reneged on the promise in 1946–who were all dead by 1992. That’s a very self-centered way to look at this. This is a story about immigrants who loved America so much that they proudly accepted citizenship when it was belatedly conferred to them. What kind of country engenders such love and devotion even in the face of such slights?

c3534l 6y ago
Its great that they didn't hold a grudge, but I don't see why I should be moved by it. Of course they were happy, they were finally being given what they were promised. A prisoner being exonerated of a crime they were falsely accused would probably be ecstatic, but hearing the story of someone being falsely convicted hardly engenders feelings of pride in our justice system. I don't see why it should be different in this case. There was no uplifting story about how someone managed to change immigration by fighting for what he believed or anything like that. The story was just "we backstabbed you and 44 years they were happy when we finally removed the knife. Yay us!" I can't muster any positive emotions in this story. I can't see why anyone would feel proud of this.
- p1esk 6y ago
  Yes. Asking people to literally give their lives for you on the battlefield, promising citizenship to those who survive, then betraying them until most are dead. Not much to be proud of here, no matter how you spin it.
- rayiner 6y ago
  > Its great that they didn't hold a grudge, but I don't see why I should be moved by it. Of course they were happy, they were finally being given what they were promised. This is an extremely shallow take. These men emigrated to the US at a time when Filipinos were legally American nationals. They were not citizens, but were already entitled to permanent residency, and their kids were already citizens by birthright. Citizenship was purely symbolic. Why would they be happy to accept a symbolic gesture from a country that wronged them? Maybe it was what they experienced in America in the intervening 40-something years? As an immigrant, I think many native born people often overlook what America is or what’s great about it. My mom explained to me today what she thinks is great about America. It’s that Americans will stop at a red light in an intersection at 1 am even if the streets are totally empty. America isn’t a collection of policies and programs. It’s people, connected by a culture, norms, beliefs, practices, and ideals. It’s a legal system and a political system that is more than just the outcome of that system with respect to any particular case or policy. And those things are all tremendous blessings. People who stop at red lights on empty streets at 1 am are a blessing. You really cannot understand it if you’ve never really lived without those things. I can totally see why these people who built a life in America would be happy to accept that symbolic gesture of citizenship 46 years later, even if it was long overdue.

phlakaton 6y ago

Who was ugly and prejudiced in the story? The narrator? The Chinese-American judge? Certainly not the veterans waiting for citizenship? They are all America too.

tenuousemphasis 6y ago
The people who reneged on the promise of granting the Philippine soldiers citizenship.
- phlakaton 6y ago
  And by focusing on them and declaring this story to be a horror story, we miss out on an important part of the story too. This isn't just of academic interest to me. A lot of my friends and family didn't feel much like celebrating America's birthday this weekend, and I completely understand why. But wallowing in that sadness and anger leads to defeatism. I would rather see us embrace the totality of America's history, so that we lift up what we ought to do more of, and remember that, in our attempts to build a better country, we do not fight alone.

jonathannat 6y ago

I think the moral of the story is that America is flawed, however, it eventually does the right thing, as well as other great things. And that's why it engenders so much love/hate. I think it's very relevant to today's events, where people wants to "cancel" a person, just because of one or two things they did wrong (which may have just been the norm in their days). This is a slightly disturbing trends, as we can supposedly only use perfectionists and saints as role models (are there any?), instead of humans who are naturally flawed. I am proud of America, the country that produced a great democracy, defeated Nazi Germany - which raised hell on earth and held concentration camps, sent people to the moon, heralded in 70 years of relative peace, spread democracies around the world, launched reusable rockets that landed back safely, and is in the process of confronting China - another country that raised hell on earth and held concentration camps - after realizing its fault.

p1esk 6y ago
defeated Nazi Germany Correction: helped defeating Nazi Germany. Compare the number of American soldiers who fought in WW2 to the number of Soviet soldiers.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  Slight correction: The USA made and shipped most of the materiel that Britain and Russia used (Ironically, Stalin supplied Germany via rail with around 1/3 of their supplies until the day of the invasion. Part of the reason that Germany lost was they never fully-mobilized their economy for war. For example, they were still making passenger cars until the end. Love to hear conversations between Hitler and Speer about that.)

umanwizard 6y ago

“We” didn’t betray anyone, unless you were in Congress in 1946.