4 ms·

I just have a hard time believing that anybody hears the word "Grandfathered" in an engineering context and thinks: "But wait a minute, I would be a Grandmother

by imgabe 6y ago

I just have a hard time believing that anybody hears the word "Grandfathered" in an engineering context and thinks: "But wait a minute, I would be a Grandmother, not a Grandfather. They must be using that word to subtly indicate that they do not want me here, despite having gone through an exhaustive recruiting and interview process to select me and then paying me quite a lot of money". This seems like an enormous waste of time. Edit: I was corrected below about why Grandfather is considered objectionable. I think the general point still stands. Nobody is using these terms with the intent of excluding anyone. Interpreting them that way takes a deliberate effort that would probably be better spent elsewhere.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sergiotapia 6y ago
I'm honking my horn vigorously.
empath75 6y ago
> The term originated in late nineteenth-century legislation and constitutional amendments passed by a number of U.S. Southern states, which created new requirements for literacy tests, payment of poll taxes, and/or residency and property restrictions to register to vote. States in some cases exempted those whose ancestors (grandfathers) had the right to vote before the Civil War, or as of a particular date, from such requirements. The intent and effect of such rules was to prevent poor and illiterate African-American former slaves and their descendants from voting, but without denying poor and illiterate whites the right to vote.[1] Although these original grandfather clauses were eventually ruled unconstitutional, the terms grandfather clause and grandfather have been adapted to other uses.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  The thing is no one actually associates the modern use of the term with this history. The same intent and effect are not present. Except that those associations are now being made or brought to the forefront and amplified into some kind of outrage. It comes off a bit like people digging into someone’s comment history to try and assassinate their character on Twitter or Reddit.
  - empath75 6y ago
    > The thing is no one actually associates the modern use of the term with this history. This is plainly false.
    - u801e 6y ago
      The term gay has changed in meaning over the last 50 years. The Flintstones opening sequence uses the phrase "we'll have a gay old time" which obviously doesn't fit the modern definition. Do people still commonly consider the phrase "a gay old time" as equivalent to an enjoyable time? Even wiktionary[1] considers it a dated phrase. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gay_old_time https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gay_old_time
    - lostapathy 6y ago
      Perhaps not “no one” but it’s a very, very small group. If you’re willing to cater to a small enough pool of potential offended people, well, you can find someone offended by just about anything. Maybe we need to ban language?
      - empath75 6y ago
        It’s amazing how much people will argue about precise programming terminology here and then anything about race is suddenly “it’s just words who cares?”
        loopz 6y ago
        Because it's the wrong solution. No words should be banned. Speech and behaviour need moderation, and there are no perfect hard rules. Offensive people need to be disciplined. Stop trying the easy way out that accomplishes only to limit freedom of speech.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - smt88 6y ago
    I am neither white nor black, but I live in the US. Every time I hear someone say "Grandfathered", I think about the origin of the word. I'm just one data point, but you said "no one actually associates the modern use" and that's untrue.
moultano 6y ago
That isn't why they're removing grandfathered. The word "grandfathered" exists because of laws in the south that kept black people from voting by saying that you were only allowed to vote if your grandfather could vote.
- CrazyStat 6y ago
  Other way around: they introduced various new barriers to voting, but said that if your grandfather was allowed to vote then you were allowed to vote (thus allowing white southerners to bypass the barriers).
- centimeter 6y ago
  Raising this much hell over a long-forgotten etymology is childish.
  - empath75 6y ago
    It’s not long forgotten. The consequences of those laws are very much alive today. It might be forgotten by you, but it is surely known by a lot of people in the south.
    - creato 6y ago
      His point was obviously not that the consequences were forgotten but the original meaning of the phrase was forgotten, and I'm pretty sure you know it. What are you trying to accomplish with this? How did you get from "I never knew what grandfathered originally meant" to "maybe you forgot about jim crow, but I haven't". I feel like racists are far more empowered by things like this than simply allowing the etymology of the word to be forgotten, like it basically had been. And now, it's just another line in the sand for people to argue about on social media. I think if I were a racist activist, I'd be finding things like this to start arguing about under a false flag.
      - empath75 6y ago
        Forgotten by who?

by imgabe 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sergiotapia 6y ago

I'm honking my horn vigorously.

empath75 6y ago

> The term originated in late nineteenth-century legislation and constitutional amendments passed by a number of U.S. Southern states, which created new requirements for literacy tests, payment of poll taxes, and/or residency and property restrictions to register to vote. States in some cases exempted those whose ancestors (grandfathers) had the right to vote before the Civil War, or as of a particular date, from such requirements. The intent and effect of such rules was to prevent poor and illiterate African-American former slaves and their descendants from voting, but without denying poor and illiterate whites the right to vote.[1] Although these original grandfather clauses were eventually ruled unconstitutional, the terms grandfather clause and grandfather have been adapted to other uses.

throwawaysea 6y ago
The thing is no one actually associates the modern use of the term with this history. The same intent and effect are not present. Except that those associations are now being made or brought to the forefront and amplified into some kind of outrage. It comes off a bit like people digging into someone’s comment history to try and assassinate their character on Twitter or Reddit.
- empath75 6y ago
  > The thing is no one actually associates the modern use of the term with this history. This is plainly false.
  - u801e 6y ago
    The term gay has changed in meaning over the last 50 years. The Flintstones opening sequence uses the phrase "we'll have a gay old time" which obviously doesn't fit the modern definition. Do people still commonly consider the phrase "a gay old time" as equivalent to an enjoyable time? Even wiktionary[1] considers it a dated phrase. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gay_old_time https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gay_old_time
  - lostapathy 6y ago
    Perhaps not “no one” but it’s a very, very small group. If you’re willing to cater to a small enough pool of potential offended people, well, you can find someone offended by just about anything. Maybe we need to ban language?
    - empath75 6y ago
      It’s amazing how much people will argue about precise programming terminology here and then anything about race is suddenly “it’s just words who cares?”
      - loopz 6y ago
        Because it's the wrong solution. No words should be banned. Speech and behaviour need moderation, and there are no perfect hard rules. Offensive people need to be disciplined. Stop trying the easy way out that accomplishes only to limit freedom of speech.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- smt88 6y ago
  I am neither white nor black, but I live in the US. Every time I hear someone say "Grandfathered", I think about the origin of the word. I'm just one data point, but you said "no one actually associates the modern use" and that's untrue.

moultano 6y ago

That isn't why they're removing grandfathered. The word "grandfathered" exists because of laws in the south that kept black people from voting by saying that you were only allowed to vote if your grandfather could vote.

CrazyStat 6y ago
Other way around: they introduced various new barriers to voting, but said that if your grandfather was allowed to vote then you were allowed to vote (thus allowing white southerners to bypass the barriers).
centimeter 6y ago
Raising this much hell over a long-forgotten etymology is childish.
- empath75 6y ago
  It’s not long forgotten. The consequences of those laws are very much alive today. It might be forgotten by you, but it is surely known by a lot of people in the south.
  - creato 6y ago
    His point was obviously not that the consequences were forgotten but the original meaning of the phrase was forgotten, and I'm pretty sure you know it. What are you trying to accomplish with this? How did you get from "I never knew what grandfathered originally meant" to "maybe you forgot about jim crow, but I haven't". I feel like racists are far more empowered by things like this than simply allowing the etymology of the word to be forgotten, like it basically had been. And now, it's just another line in the sand for people to argue about on social media. I think if I were a racist activist, I'd be finding things like this to start arguing about under a false flag.
    - empath75 6y ago
      Forgotten by who?