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I'm curious what the lifetime of the batteries is and whether that is being fully incorporated into the evaluation of their cost effectiveness? Of course, given

by zmmmmm 6y ago

I'm curious what the lifetime of the batteries is and whether that is being fully incorporated into the evaluation of their cost effectiveness? Of course, given they have already apparently recouped more than their entire cost before even getting fully out of testing phase, it seems like this is not going to be an issue. But I still always do wonder how well this is accounted for with battery tech.

sgc 6y ago
100%. Nobody makes that kind of asset purchase without lifecycle analysis.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
toomuchtodo 6y ago
> But I still always do wonder how well this is accounted for with battery tech. https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-data/ https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-batter...
- SEJeff 6y ago
  https://insideevs.com/news/369722/tesla-jeff-dahn-new-battery-cell-1-million-miles/ https://insideevs.com/news/369722/tesla-jeff-dahn-new-batter... Tesla has battery cells that can last a million miles thanks to Jeff Dahn's research. Jeff Dahn is one of the original inventors of the Lithium Ion battery btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dahn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dahn
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    My point was that Tesla has proven the longevity of their cells under aggressive duty cycles with their high performance vehicles.
    - SEJeff 6y ago
      Ah sorry, I mistook that comment as saying they don’t last that long. Yeah I think battery chemistry is one of the (patented) areas where Tesla is far ahead of the rest of the world.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        My fault, my original comment should’ve been more clear. Your citation is better by the way.
vvll 6y ago
Lifetime of the batteries is generally linked to throughput (full charge/discharge cycles). For batteries that go through one charge and discharge a day, this results in the battery energy storage capacity being around 60-70% at the end of 10 years [1]. For this Tesla battery (frequency support), the battery isn't required to fully charge/discharge every day, and instead only charges/discharges in response to over/underfrequency events on the power grid (you can see its current status on their website [2]). Without following the day-to-day operation of the battery, you could estimate the lifespan of the battery will be 10 years+. [1] https://vectorwebstoreprd.blob.core.windows.net/blob/vector/media/vector-regulatory-disclosures/d-lithium-battery-life-review-final-report-2017.pdf https://vectorwebstoreprd.blob.core.windows.net/blob/vector/... [2] https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/ https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/

by zmmmmm 6y ago

sgc 6y ago

100%. Nobody makes that kind of asset purchase without lifecycle analysis.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

toomuchtodo 6y ago

> But I still always do wonder how well this is accounted for with battery tech. https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-data/ https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-batter...

SEJeff 6y ago
https://insideevs.com/news/369722/tesla-jeff-dahn-new-battery-cell-1-million-miles/ https://insideevs.com/news/369722/tesla-jeff-dahn-new-batter... Tesla has battery cells that can last a million miles thanks to Jeff Dahn's research. Jeff Dahn is one of the original inventors of the Lithium Ion battery btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dahn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dahn
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  My point was that Tesla has proven the longevity of their cells under aggressive duty cycles with their high performance vehicles.
  - SEJeff 6y ago
    Ah sorry, I mistook that comment as saying they don’t last that long. Yeah I think battery chemistry is one of the (patented) areas where Tesla is far ahead of the rest of the world.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      My fault, my original comment should’ve been more clear. Your citation is better by the way.

vvll 6y ago

Lifetime of the batteries is generally linked to throughput (full charge/discharge cycles). For batteries that go through one charge and discharge a day, this results in the battery energy storage capacity being around 60-70% at the end of 10 years [1]. For this Tesla battery (frequency support), the battery isn't required to fully charge/discharge every day, and instead only charges/discharges in response to over/underfrequency events on the power grid (you can see its current status on their website [2]). Without following the day-to-day operation of the battery, you could estimate the lifespan of the battery will be 10 years+. [1] https://vectorwebstoreprd.blob.core.windows.net/blob/vector/media/vector-regulatory-disclosures/d-lithium-battery-life-review-final-report-2017.pdf https://vectorwebstoreprd.blob.core.windows.net/blob/vector/... [2] https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/ https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/