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> COVID can easily overwhelm the hospital system all by itself. 1. Is there anything a hospital can actually do to save someone with a serious case of covid-19

by umvi 6y ago

> COVID can easily overwhelm the hospital system all by itself. 1. Is there anything a hospital can actually do to save someone with a serious case of covid-19? As far as I know, ventilators are ineffective (and may even make things worse?). If 100 people with serious covid-19 are taking up ICU beds, how many will live due to direct hospital intervention? If it's a very low %, it seems like a no-brainer to turn away covid-19 cases in favor or other, more treatable diseases. Otherwise it's like letting people with prion disease use up all the ICU beds despite their condition being pretty much untreatable. 2. Anti-covid measures can do the inverse. Remember back in March/April/May when all the hospitals in the USA were empty due to SIP? Most hospitals ended up dismantling their temporary covid-19 field hospitals due to lack of use.

deleted 6y ago
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rgbrenner 6y ago
1. Ventilators are likely effective: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/15/856768020/new-evidence-suggests-covid-19-patients-on-ventilators-usually-survive https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/15/8567680... New treatments are being developed every day, so those numbers may get better. 2. IMO, dismantling the field hospitals was a terrible idea. They built them early, locked down, then saw the decline and people started thinking we were going to eradicate it like in New Zealand. It was never going to happen.
chki 6y ago
Ventilators are definitely not ineffective. Obviously it's not a treatment but a measure to keep the patient alive and prolong the time for the patients own immune response to fight the virus. Studies show a 30% mortality rate among ICU patients. Without ventilation this would be closer to 100% because patients without ventilation would suffocate.
lmilcin 6y ago
If you look at statistics, death rates skyrocket in places and at the time when hospitals are overwhelmed. Also remember, doctors and nurses are people, too. Who is going to save your ass if all staff is sick?
- umvi 6y ago
  If all the staff is sick, then 2 weeks later all the staff will be immune. So just... Don't get sick during the window when all staff is simultaneously sick.
pessimizer 6y ago
> it seems like a no-brainer to turn away covid-19 cases in favor or other, more treatable diseases. A hospital wouldn't be turning them away, they'd be throwing them out. Any likely fatal case of covid is already in the hospital. That's death panels on steroids. What survival percentage should get people ejected? 10%? What would be the social consequences of turning people away from a hospital who would live 10% of the time? Should they also start turning down people in serious car accidents or who have had serious heart attacks? Where would these triaged be sent? Would there be some sort of lightly manned hospice warehouse where suffering people wait to die, or would it be more merciful to give them an injection? If you don't give them an injection, but 1-2% of the time they still end up recovering on their own, how would we answer them when they start loudly and publicly asking questions about our priorities? These probably aren't questions that you would personally have to answer, because your role in this hypothetical is just to not be on lockdown and to be free to do whatever you want when you want, but other people are going to be required to physically carry this stuff out. > Most hospitals ended up dismantling their temporary covid-19 field hospitals due to lack of use. This is good news, not bad news.

by umvi 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

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rgbrenner 6y ago

1. Ventilators are likely effective: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/15/856768020/new-evidence-suggests-covid-19-patients-on-ventilators-usually-survive https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/15/8567680... New treatments are being developed every day, so those numbers may get better. 2. IMO, dismantling the field hospitals was a terrible idea. They built them early, locked down, then saw the decline and people started thinking we were going to eradicate it like in New Zealand. It was never going to happen.

chki 6y ago

Ventilators are definitely not ineffective. Obviously it's not a treatment but a measure to keep the patient alive and prolong the time for the patients own immune response to fight the virus. Studies show a 30% mortality rate among ICU patients. Without ventilation this would be closer to 100% because patients without ventilation would suffocate.

lmilcin 6y ago

If you look at statistics, death rates skyrocket in places and at the time when hospitals are overwhelmed. Also remember, doctors and nurses are people, too. Who is going to save your ass if all staff is sick?

umvi 6y ago
If all the staff is sick, then 2 weeks later all the staff will be immune. So just... Don't get sick during the window when all staff is simultaneously sick.

pessimizer 6y ago

> it seems like a no-brainer to turn away covid-19 cases in favor or other, more treatable diseases. A hospital wouldn't be turning them away, they'd be throwing them out. Any likely fatal case of covid is already in the hospital. That's death panels on steroids. What survival percentage should get people ejected? 10%? What would be the social consequences of turning people away from a hospital who would live 10% of the time? Should they also start turning down people in serious car accidents or who have had serious heart attacks? Where would these triaged be sent? Would there be some sort of lightly manned hospice warehouse where suffering people wait to die, or would it be more merciful to give them an injection? If you don't give them an injection, but 1-2% of the time they still end up recovering on their own, how would we answer them when they start loudly and publicly asking questions about our priorities? These probably aren't questions that you would personally have to answer, because your role in this hypothetical is just to not be on lockdown and to be free to do whatever you want when you want, but other people are going to be required to physically carry this stuff out. > Most hospitals ended up dismantling their temporary covid-19 field hospitals due to lack of use. This is good news, not bad news.