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The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?
- m0zg 6y agoRarely do you see a "writer" so far detached from reality. Recommended read, just to see what that looks like.
- skrebbel 6y agoCare to elaborate? This is the first time I hear about the "boogaloo" thing
- davidlumley 6y agoRobert Evans and Jason Wilson have a pretty good overview here: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-movement-is-not-what-you-think/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-move...
- devmunchies 6y agoa journalist that gets it. > Open source materials suggest that, for now, the apocalyptic, anti-government politics of the “Boogaloo Bois” are not monolithically racist/neo-Nazi. As we have observed, some members rail against police shootings of African Americans, and praise black nationalist self defense groups Lots of these people are folkish. They aren't suppremacists. They want other cultures to be strong and folkish too because it allows them the same privilege. Its folkish nationalism.
- TechBro8615 6y agoPeople get confused when they can’t fit a movement (which, incidentally, this really isn’t) into a box on the left or right.
- m0zg 6y agoBut he tries his best to tie it to the "right" anyway, whatever that means nowadays. Conservatives shooting police? Give me a break.
- ForHackernews 6y agoTimothy McVeigh bombed a federal building. It sounds like you're engaging in a "no true scotsman" argument if you're claiming that nobody associated with the political right uses violence against the state.
- m0zg 6y agoIt's quite telling that you have to go back to Timothy McVeigh for an example of this. That was quarter of a century ago, and it was just one dude, and his connection to the right was tenuous at best.
- ForHackernews 6y agoIn 2016, a bunch of right wing goons with guns occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon. They didn't kill anyone, but it was an armed standoff with federal agents. Is that recent enough for you?
- ForHackernews 6y agoThe author of this Atlantic piece (dismissed above as "so far detached from reality") makes the exact same observation: > The boogaloo groups disagree when it comes to racism. Some members are white supremacists. Others compare the movement to the left’s campaign against police brutality. Many boogaloo memes are focused on police overreach, equating the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives and FBI sieges at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and Waco, Texas, in the ’90s with the recent high-profile police killings of Black Americans.
- ForHackernews 6y agoCan you explain what you mean by "folkish"? I googled and got very little except this wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkisch_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkisch_movement but it seems to be only based on a literal translation from German.
- devmunchies 6y agofolkish means racially or culturally conscious and having an affinity for your "own people". An example would would be Israel, where jews can be with their "own". There's pros and cons. Pros would be that its more of a long-term strategy to preserve cultural diversity, since their large pockets of peoples (ie. japan is still overwhelmingly Japanese). It also allows the children in that folkish community to be raise with their own culture. these folkish pockets also create more interesting tourism, since its distinguished from a globalized generic culture. A con would be if you become so fixated on it that you see your folk as superior that you don't share your culture with others, don't let in outsiders, and you don't visit and enjoy other cultures. This would means instead of having a healthy appreciation for diverse culture (your's included), you just hate others. A lack of exposure to other culture means your own won't improve.
- pvg 6y agoI don't think it's accurate to describe the state of Israel with the terminology of white nationalism.
- devmunchies 6y agoIf the shoe fits.
- pvg 6y agoI'm not sure I follow.
- dang 6y agoNot cool, and you've posted like this before. Please keep this kind of thing off HN.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- skrebbel 6y agowow, that's an amazing level of depth! really cool article
- m0zg 6y ago"If there was ever a time for bois to _stand in solidarity_ ..." Emphasis is mine. That phrase is used almost exclusively by far leftists, and comes from Marxism/Leninism (haven never actually read any of it, the vast majority of leftists do not know where the phrase comes from). It could be that this exact phrasing is used on purpose, actually, as a form of trolling IRL to appeal to the far left types and try to provoke violence against the government (which will eventually blow back pretty hard - patience is wearing thin already, even in ultra-liberal places like Portland or Seattle). I still can't really imagine, however, that the overwhelmingly pro-police conservatives could advocate shooting cops. This seems like far left, "tear down the system" shit to me. "The world is about to change its foundation. We are nothing, let us be all." The Russian translation, BTW, literally translates as "We will destroy the world of violence to its foundation, and then, we will build our new world, those who were nothing will be all".
- hprotagonist 6y agoI keep thinking of Maniac Magee and reading it as a child and thinking then that Jerry Spinelli was describing ancient history that we’d never see again.
- stickfigure 6y agoThis article, written from the perspective of someone who clearly "gets up close" with that particular scene, is far more interesting: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-movement-is-not-what-you-think/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-move... TL;DR: It's about as coherent as you would imagine for something that self-organized on 4chan.
- pmoriarty 6y agoAlso see: The Meme-Fueled Rise of a Dangerous, Far-Right Militia[1] and The Boogaloo Tipping Point[2]. [1] - https://www.wired.com/story/boogaloo-movement-protests https://www.wired.com/story/boogaloo-movement-protests [2] - https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/american-boogaloo-meme-or-terrorist-movement/613843/?utm_source=feed https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/ameri...
- ForHackernews 6y ago> and The Boogaloo Tipping Point[2]. > [2] - https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/ameri.. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/ameri.... Literally the article you're commenting on. :)
- getTruthy 6y agoWould someone please explain the difference between these "terrorists" and the "freedom fighters" the U.S. sponsors around the world?
- drewcon 6y agoIt’s really unfortunate to see such an unchallenged application of the label “libertarian” here. Put aside your own feelings for a moment. Highlighting any connection between libertarianism with the alt-right, white supremacy, or anti-government militias seems as disingenuous as the superficial connection between atheism and fascist communism. In either case, does the ideology overlap in convenient areas (to the negative ideologies), yes, probably. It’s easier to command absolute fealty of the state without god in the way. It’s easier to preach radical, violent white supremacist anarcho-capitalism with the state out of the picture. But does libertarianism espouse, promote, or a natural evolution that ends in The Boogaloo? Absolutely not, and it’s ridiculous for a journalist not to ask and answer those questions.
- someguydave 6y agoIt’s the same rhetorical trick that allows folks in all-Democrat city and state governments to blame Republicans for all the problems.
- stonogo 6y agoNot all of them are racists, but all of them are libertarians. The writer doesn't do a good job of clarifying that, but it's not like applying the label is inaccurate.
- flywheel 6y agoI've run into far too many aggressively toxic, self proclaimed "libertarians" on the internet. So when the article mentioned "libertarian" in the context of the "boogaloo" idiots, it didn't surprise me at all. Libertarianism has changed a bit with the times, as have Democrats and Republicans. All kinds of bad ideas have crept in, after fermenting on the internet.
- cmdshiftf4 6y agoThe whole world has watched on as crowds of leftists have looted, attacked property, chanted death threats, beaten and even killed people for a month straight. The same ideology captured a part of a city, set up an "autonomous zone" with its own police force who themselves shot and killed a kid recently. And yet the Atlantic, and recently the BBC, want us to worry about some fringe group who've collectively done nothing (good or bad). Going from disappointment that the right didn't get involved whatsoever in the last month, to attempting to meme a conservative boogeyman into reality. >The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement? >Please become a terrorist movement, you guys, we and our ideological partners have significant egg our faces and it's limiting our candidate's election chances.
- tpearson 6y agoThe first three paragraphs of the linked article talk about an attack on two federal security officers in Oakland and the pipe bombs that were used against sheriff's deputies attempting to arrest the suspect - a suspect who "had scrawled boog, along with various boogaloo slogans, in his own blood on the hood of a car" This is possibly one of the first things they've done, but I'd hardly characterize that as doing nothing bad
- cmdshiftf4 6y ago>This is possibly one of the first things they've done Well, unless it was orchestrated by the movement itself or one of its "leaders", one could make the age-old argument that it was just a couple of nutjobs who happened to subscribe or meet on the same Facebook group or wherever. In any "movement" there will always be a number of complete nutjobs, as we well know.
- pmoriarty 6y ago"the Atlantic, and recently the BBC, want us to worry about some fringe group who've collectively done nothing (good or bad)" Not quite. "On May 29, two federal security officers guarding a courthouse in Oakland, California, were ambushed by machine-gun fire as elsewhere in the city demonstrators marched peacefully to protest the killing of George Floyd. One of the guards, David Patrick Underwood, died as a result of the attack, and the other was wounded. For days, conservative news broadcasters pinned the blame on “antifa,” the loosely affiliated group of anti-fascist anarchists known to attack property and far-right demonstrators at protests. But the alleged culprit, apprehended a week later, turned out to be a 32-year-old Air Force sergeant named Steven Carrillo, the head of a squadron called the Phoenix Ravens, which guards military installations from terrorist attacks. "According to prosecutors, Carrillo and an accomplice, 30-year-old Robert A. Justus Jr., were part of the “boogaloo” movement, a patchwork of right-leaning anti-government libertarians, Second Amendment advocates, and gun enthusiasts all preparing for another American civil war."[1] [1] - https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/american-boogaloo-meme-or-terrorist-movement/613843/?utm_source=feed https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/ameri...
- h2odragon 6y agoBoogaloo Bois and Nazi Bronies; clearly the people at the Atlantic are besieged by right wing terror recently. I'm personally waiting for the ranks of marching Nazi's with rainbow uniforms and strap on unicorn horns, haven't seen any yet but thanks to the vigilance of modern media I know to listen for the menacing "clop" of approaching hoof boots.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- RickyInHell 6y agoThe Boogaloo movement is not a terrorist movement, we wish to accomplish the movements goals as peacefully as possible but we also don't want the nations standard to be a "War is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength." because that is where this nation seems to be headed and if our second amendment rights are gone than if a government even more tyrannical than the present administration takes power we will have nothing to defend ourselves with.
- RickyInHell 6y agoand also i think that this idea that the boogaloo movement is some how bad comes from CONINTELPRO or some modern equal to it