4 ms·

Trump May Attempt to Force Long-Time H-1B Visa Holders Out of U.S.

28 points by carfacts 6y ago

bootcampwhere 6y ago
As a liberal researcher who has been looking unsuccessfully for a job after an MS at OSU for over a year how am i supposed to feel about this.
Barrin92 6y ago
It's quite astonishing to see the US actively reject the people and the talent that other countries would be taking with open arms. Indian and Chinese immigrants in particular in tech constitute a large part of the workforce and the former increasingly in leadership too. With the rapidly developing national sectors in India and China and the increasing racism and deteriorating condition this could very well the point at which many people consider to actually go home. What could have been decades of comfortable technological lead for the US may evaporate within a decade or two if human talent is rejected like this. Crazy to see a nation do this to itself honestly.
- cachestash 6y ago
  Trump has no use for smart or brown skinned people, neither group would ever vote for him.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rayiner 6y ago
    Asians voted Hilary 65-27: http://2016.elections.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls http://2016.elections.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-pol.... Latinos were 66-28. Lots of brown skinned people voted for Trump.
  - pnako 6y ago
    What do you mean exactly by "brown" people? Who do you include in that category?
    - 0xdeadb00f 6y ago
      Anyone who is non-white, I assume.
rayiner 6y ago
Folks need to understand the context in which all this is happening. This isn’t just about what policies we should have for high-skill immigration. It’s the product of decades of administrations ignoring the immigration laws that we have. In other countries, the legislature votes on immigration policies and those policies are implemented. Canada decides to have high-skill immigration through a point-based process and the executive implemented those policies. That’s not what we do in the US. We formulate immigration policy through executive fiat and bureaucratic practice. In the US, the H1 program is not a high-skill immigration program. We don’t have one. The Wikipedia article covers this well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa > An H-1B visa allows an individual to enter the United States to temporarily work at an employer in a specialty occupation. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b > The H-1B program applies to employers seeking to hire nonimmigrant aliens as workers in specialty occupations or as fashion models of distinguished merit and ability The Immigration and Naturalization Act that created the H1-B program was billed to voters as creating a temporary immigration status, not a vector for permanent immigration. It has turned into a de-facto permanent immigration visa not by law, but by executive practice. My family (my parents and I, then later my uncle and aunt and their two adult kids) came here on an H1B visa. I’m a proponent of skilled immigration. But viewing this as just a debate over immigration policy (or worse, just an artifact of Trump racism) is deeply misleading. We’re a country founded on the rule of law. But for decades, we’ve ignored our ordinary legislative processes when it comes to immigration policies. That’s not right, that’s not how Democracy is supposed to work, and it’s hard for me to blame people who are simply demanding that our existing laws be enforced. At the same time, yes, it’s unfair to people who came here on H1-B thinking it was a route to permanent residency. Maybe if proponents of skilled immigration had actually done the work and actually gotten legislation passed creating a permanent immigration program for skilled workers, we wouldn’t in this mess today.
- mamon 6y ago
  Isn't O-1 visa a category for higly skilled workers? H-1B is certainly not, I mean they recently redefined it to include "fashion models" of all things - what kind of skills does that job entail?
- 6y ago
bediger4000 6y ago
Gosh, will major tech companies allow this to happen without an impossible-to-resist lobbying effort? This would make US citizens who are developers and SREs and system admins almost impossibly valuable, wouldn't it?
- padiyar83 6y ago
  This will also incentivize firms to consider running teams from countries like Ireland, Canada (less restricted on immigration) and India (labor rich). It's also a shot in the arm for remote "work from anywhere". Higher the wage in US, greater the incentive for a firm to do these things.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    It's hard to say how long Silicon Valley can be an economic diver without immigrant talent, especially if that talent concentrates elsewhere. A lot of that talent originally came to the US for an education, and those numbers leveled off when Trump was elected. Most of the foreign student growth was also from China, which I'd expect to see drip in the next decade regardless of who wins in November. https://www.educationnext.org/files/ednext_XIX_4_usher_fig01-small.png https://www.educationnext.org/files/ednext_XIX_4_usher_fig01... Because of the education angle, I doubt Ireland will be a winner, but the UK might be, Canada, and Australia look promising.
throw98226 6y ago
This is a huge benefit to Canada! https://theprovince.com/technology/shopify-poach-foreign-talent-blocked-trump-immigrant-visa-ban/wcm/6f7663d0-e938-450c-9716-d2f125218c72 https://theprovince.com/technology/shopify-poach-foreign-tal...
badrabbit 6y ago
Most of my team will be affected by this. We are considering changing location of our offices among other options. So, even though I and a few others are americans,Trump's insanity on this will affect us directly. It's not like there are American workers lined up to do the job h1b workers do. America will lose the demand for skilled labor permanently with this along with a largr chunk of what little supporting skilled workforce exists. I will be honest with you, I like living in america with all it's problems. Do you guys suggest a better country for relocation? Canada is all I can think of but it's so cold! I fully support giving h1b holders a green card once trump is gone.
wiseleo 6y ago
In related news[1], 13400 immigration workers will be furloughed. He’s good at causing chaos. :( [1]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/02/politics/uscis-mass-furloughs-pandemic/index.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/02/poli...

28 points by carfacts 6y ago

As a liberal researcher who has been looking unsuccessfully for a job after an MS at OSU for over a year how am i supposed to feel about this.

Barrin92 6y ago

It's quite astonishing to see the US actively reject the people and the talent that other countries would be taking with open arms. Indian and Chinese immigrants in particular in tech constitute a large part of the workforce and the former increasingly in leadership too. With the rapidly developing national sectors in India and China and the increasing racism and deteriorating condition this could very well the point at which many people consider to actually go home. What could have been decades of comfortable technological lead for the US may evaporate within a decade or two if human talent is rejected like this. Crazy to see a nation do this to itself honestly.

cachestash 6y ago
Trump has no use for smart or brown skinned people, neither group would ever vote for him.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 6y ago
  Asians voted Hilary 65-27: http://2016.elections.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls http://2016.elections.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-pol.... Latinos were 66-28. Lots of brown skinned people voted for Trump.
- pnako 6y ago
  What do you mean exactly by "brown" people? Who do you include in that category?
  - 0xdeadb00f 6y ago
    Anyone who is non-white, I assume.

rayiner 6y ago

Folks need to understand the context in which all this is happening. This isn’t just about what policies we should have for high-skill immigration. It’s the product of decades of administrations ignoring the immigration laws that we have. In other countries, the legislature votes on immigration policies and those policies are implemented. Canada decides to have high-skill immigration through a point-based process and the executive implemented those policies. That’s not what we do in the US. We formulate immigration policy through executive fiat and bureaucratic practice. In the US, the H1 program is not a high-skill immigration program. We don’t have one. The Wikipedia article covers this well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa > An H-1B visa allows an individual to enter the United States to temporarily work at an employer in a specialty occupation. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b > The H-1B program applies to employers seeking to hire nonimmigrant aliens as workers in specialty occupations or as fashion models of distinguished merit and ability The Immigration and Naturalization Act that created the H1-B program was billed to voters as creating a temporary immigration status, not a vector for permanent immigration. It has turned into a de-facto permanent immigration visa not by law, but by executive practice. My family (my parents and I, then later my uncle and aunt and their two adult kids) came here on an H1B visa. I’m a proponent of skilled immigration. But viewing this as just a debate over immigration policy (or worse, just an artifact of Trump racism) is deeply misleading. We’re a country founded on the rule of law. But for decades, we’ve ignored our ordinary legislative processes when it comes to immigration policies. That’s not right, that’s not how Democracy is supposed to work, and it’s hard for me to blame people who are simply demanding that our existing laws be enforced. At the same time, yes, it’s unfair to people who came here on H1-B thinking it was a route to permanent residency. Maybe if proponents of skilled immigration had actually done the work and actually gotten legislation passed creating a permanent immigration program for skilled workers, we wouldn’t in this mess today.

mamon 6y ago
Isn't O-1 visa a category for higly skilled workers? H-1B is certainly not, I mean they recently redefined it to include "fashion models" of all things - what kind of skills does that job entail?
6y ago

bediger4000 6y ago

Gosh, will major tech companies allow this to happen without an impossible-to-resist lobbying effort? This would make US citizens who are developers and SREs and system admins almost impossibly valuable, wouldn't it?

padiyar83 6y ago
This will also incentivize firms to consider running teams from countries like Ireland, Canada (less restricted on immigration) and India (labor rich). It's also a shot in the arm for remote "work from anywhere". Higher the wage in US, greater the incentive for a firm to do these things.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  It's hard to say how long Silicon Valley can be an economic diver without immigrant talent, especially if that talent concentrates elsewhere. A lot of that talent originally came to the US for an education, and those numbers leveled off when Trump was elected. Most of the foreign student growth was also from China, which I'd expect to see drip in the next decade regardless of who wins in November. https://www.educationnext.org/files/ednext_XIX_4_usher_fig01-small.png https://www.educationnext.org/files/ednext_XIX_4_usher_fig01... Because of the education angle, I doubt Ireland will be a winner, but the UK might be, Canada, and Australia look promising.

throw98226 6y ago

This is a huge benefit to Canada! https://theprovince.com/technology/shopify-poach-foreign-talent-blocked-trump-immigrant-visa-ban/wcm/6f7663d0-e938-450c-9716-d2f125218c72 https://theprovince.com/technology/shopify-poach-foreign-tal...

badrabbit 6y ago

Most of my team will be affected by this. We are considering changing location of our offices among other options. So, even though I and a few others are americans,Trump's insanity on this will affect us directly. It's not like there are American workers lined up to do the job h1b workers do. America will lose the demand for skilled labor permanently with this along with a largr chunk of what little supporting skilled workforce exists. I will be honest with you, I like living in america with all it's problems. Do you guys suggest a better country for relocation? Canada is all I can think of but it's so cold! I fully support giving h1b holders a green card once trump is gone.

wiseleo 6y ago

In related news[1], 13400 immigration workers will be furloughed. He’s good at causing chaos. :( [1]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/02/politics/uscis-mass-furloughs-pandemic/index.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/02/poli...