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>>persecution of people who either look or do something different from their own. Who is being persecuted now? The Cancel Culture is much more a modern coroll

>>persecution of people who either look or do something different from their own. Who is being persecuted now? The Cancel Culture is much more a modern corollary to witch hunts than anything conservatives are doing. Conservatives exhibit witch-hunting tendencies to some extent, in relation to liberals, where they promote unhinged conspiracy theories about them trying to subjucate the masses. But these conservatism inspired forms of persecution are much less pronounced than something like Cancel Culture, as they are not being perpetrated by people who control the commanding heights of the cultural landscape.

krustyburger 6y ago
Ascribing the status of a capital noun to “cancel culture” is something reactionaries have been doing to try to paint all of their (many) ideological foes into the same category. The use of this term is an effort to distract from the fact that the vast majority of the celebrities who have been “cancelled” have actually victimized others or in other ways taken actions that were offensive or worse. In short, the only people who believe in a monolithic “Cancel Culture” are those who have spent too much time absorbing right wing talking points.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  Why would "reactionaries", which is a term very popular among Marxist types to describe those opposed to radical left causes, try to paint Cancel Culture in negative terms, if it did not have a heavy ideological slant? >>The use of this term is an effort to distract from the fact that the vast majority of the celebrities who have been “cancelled” have actually victimized others or in other ways taken actions that were offensive or worse. Criticizing Cancel Culture does not imply that one believes celebrities targeted by it haven't done bad things. It implies that the reaction is disproportionate and being pushed from a place of ideological extremism. These unfair and disingenuous characterizations of critics is another characteristic of Cancel Culture. It has very hostile/sanctimonious ingroup/out-group dynamics, with a lot of conspiracy theories being attributed to the out-group.
  - krustyburger 6y ago
    The term reactionary dates to the French Revolution. You imputing Marxism to any skepticism of the existence of “Cancel Culture” is a typical straw man; I am no Marxist. The only relevant conspiracy theory I’m aware of is the one being advanced by those pushing the “Cancel Culture” narrative. All it takes is a few minutes watching Tucker Carlson or his comrades in arms to hear them lay out their specious case that there is a unified effort to unfairly cancel innocent celebrities. (And it is nearly always celebrities. It amuses me that the right wing narrative at the present moment includes a tabloid-like fixation on the fate of anyone halfway famous.)
    - CryptoPunk 6y ago
      >>The term reactionary dates to the French Revolution Yes, but associated mostly with Marxism. And the French Revolution, with its equality-inspired fanaticism, was the ideological forebearer of Marxist revolutions. There are many similarities between the French Revolution and the communism inspired Cultural Revolution in China, for example. >>All it takes is a few minutes watching Tucker Carlson or his comrades in arms to hear them lay out their specious case that there is a unified effort to unfairly cancel innocent celebrities. I don't follow Tucker Carlson, so I'm not familiar with his narratives. But Cancel Culture refers to a culture, not a conspiracy, and clearly exists. >>And it is nearly always celebrities. It amuses me that the right wing narrative at the present moment includes a tabloid-like fixation on the fate of anyone halfway famous It's any one with influence, or in a position of power really. Your fixation on these peripheral points, like who Cancel Culture is affecting, and the fact that Conservatives care about the fate of celebrities, when the debate is about whether Cancel Culture exists, is petty.
ithkuil 6y ago
Is "cancel culture" new? What happened in the past to people who would say inconvenient things (swear words or blasfemies in TV, being homosexual, ...)? Bigotry was always there. It's just that nowadays we have a different cultural majority. What's irritating about the present situation is that nominally the current cultural majority was against the bigots of the past and yet is applying pressure against who thinks differently and thus becoming bigot themselves (bigotry: "intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself."). I'm sure people have opinions about whether the reasons to apply the corrective pressures are well founded or at least in good faith ( also have personal opinions about that) but that's not so important IMHO; people can be wrong: dogmas are dangerous; we should be able to have candid conversations about things. That's said, I have the feeling that the critiques of "cancel culture" coming from the right are not based on the desire for an open dialogue but more a combination of whataboutism and playing victims to strengthen in-group bonds. This is driving us apart even more. I want to know how do people who think differently than I do think.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  >>Is "cancel culture" new? What happened in the past to people who would say inconvenient things (swear words or blasfemies in TV, being homosexual, ...)? Ostracization/cancellation of the non-conforming doesn't seem to be new. My point is that this kind of behavior is the modern corollary to witch hunts. The Left Wing manifestation of it seen in modern times is called Cancel Culture, but all of its forms, past and present, have beeh types of mob persection in my opinion.
pizzazzaro 6y ago
Especially when the boogieman of "Cancel Culture" usually fuels growth for whoever is boycotted? Louis CK is making more money than ever after being "Cancelled". Which viable 2020 Presidential Candidate hasnt been cancelled? More rational heads need to point out how silly this line of reasoning is. But sometimes people need to feel threatened to (paradoxically) help their ego, and infect others with the paranoia. so here we are. There's this nasty problem of police brutality aimed at the black community. You might have heard about it. Breonna Taylor was shot dead in her sleep by an officer who was not (initially) charged. in her sleep. No consequences until the uproar. Elijah McClain did not reach for any officer's gun. George Floyd did nothing wrong. The list goes on too long to mention, even in the last year. And we can point back to the George Floyd of the 90's in LA... Or those immigrant refugees we keep putting in cages. Did ya know that policy was the brainchild of Stephen Miller, who was unmasked as a White Nationalidt by documents delivered Democracy Now? The architect of "kids crammed in cages" under Trump actually uses the words, "White" and "Power" together. Or there's those natives we herded onto reservations, made promises to, and never delivered. A genocide that actually inspired Hitler. Note that Godwin has rescinded his law in the face of a rising tide of actual Fascism worldwide. Or hell - $0.77 / $1 is what the average woman makes, compared to men in the same industry. The LGBT+ community has their own complex weave of challenges above what their non-LGBTQIA+ peers experience. Some of these can include an increased likelihood for death by cop, or lynching. Even in the US. But especially in other countries, like Russia. But oh, something you said was unintentionally hurtful. Welcome to adulthood in the 21st century. Most times? Apologize, learn, dont do it again, and nobody has to care. If its that bad that it still sticks? Time for some community service hours interacting peacably with the aggrieved community. Just get and try to stay involved. Nobody will have room to care in any way that hurts you when you have personal stories of a personal connection made by uplifting people. Not just "one friend", an actual community. But yet, we have TWO Presidential candidates that have been "Cancelled"™©®, with giving so much as an apology. And nobody cares about that. Cancel Culture is practically a government spook! Or rather, the fear of it is.

krustyburger 6y ago

Ascribing the status of a capital noun to “cancel culture” is something reactionaries have been doing to try to paint all of their (many) ideological foes into the same category. The use of this term is an effort to distract from the fact that the vast majority of the celebrities who have been “cancelled” have actually victimized others or in other ways taken actions that were offensive or worse. In short, the only people who believe in a monolithic “Cancel Culture” are those who have spent too much time absorbing right wing talking points.

CryptoPunk 6y ago
Why would "reactionaries", which is a term very popular among Marxist types to describe those opposed to radical left causes, try to paint Cancel Culture in negative terms, if it did not have a heavy ideological slant? >>The use of this term is an effort to distract from the fact that the vast majority of the celebrities who have been “cancelled” have actually victimized others or in other ways taken actions that were offensive or worse. Criticizing Cancel Culture does not imply that one believes celebrities targeted by it haven't done bad things. It implies that the reaction is disproportionate and being pushed from a place of ideological extremism. These unfair and disingenuous characterizations of critics is another characteristic of Cancel Culture. It has very hostile/sanctimonious ingroup/out-group dynamics, with a lot of conspiracy theories being attributed to the out-group.
- krustyburger 6y ago
  The term reactionary dates to the French Revolution. You imputing Marxism to any skepticism of the existence of “Cancel Culture” is a typical straw man; I am no Marxist. The only relevant conspiracy theory I’m aware of is the one being advanced by those pushing the “Cancel Culture” narrative. All it takes is a few minutes watching Tucker Carlson or his comrades in arms to hear them lay out their specious case that there is a unified effort to unfairly cancel innocent celebrities. (And it is nearly always celebrities. It amuses me that the right wing narrative at the present moment includes a tabloid-like fixation on the fate of anyone halfway famous.)
  - CryptoPunk 6y ago
    >>The term reactionary dates to the French Revolution Yes, but associated mostly with Marxism. And the French Revolution, with its equality-inspired fanaticism, was the ideological forebearer of Marxist revolutions. There are many similarities between the French Revolution and the communism inspired Cultural Revolution in China, for example. >>All it takes is a few minutes watching Tucker Carlson or his comrades in arms to hear them lay out their specious case that there is a unified effort to unfairly cancel innocent celebrities. I don't follow Tucker Carlson, so I'm not familiar with his narratives. But Cancel Culture refers to a culture, not a conspiracy, and clearly exists. >>And it is nearly always celebrities. It amuses me that the right wing narrative at the present moment includes a tabloid-like fixation on the fate of anyone halfway famous It's any one with influence, or in a position of power really. Your fixation on these peripheral points, like who Cancel Culture is affecting, and the fact that Conservatives care about the fate of celebrities, when the debate is about whether Cancel Culture exists, is petty.

ithkuil 6y ago

Is "cancel culture" new? What happened in the past to people who would say inconvenient things (swear words or blasfemies in TV, being homosexual, ...)? Bigotry was always there. It's just that nowadays we have a different cultural majority. What's irritating about the present situation is that nominally the current cultural majority was against the bigots of the past and yet is applying pressure against who thinks differently and thus becoming bigot themselves (bigotry: "intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself."). I'm sure people have opinions about whether the reasons to apply the corrective pressures are well founded or at least in good faith ( also have personal opinions about that) but that's not so important IMHO; people can be wrong: dogmas are dangerous; we should be able to have candid conversations about things. That's said, I have the feeling that the critiques of "cancel culture" coming from the right are not based on the desire for an open dialogue but more a combination of whataboutism and playing victims to strengthen in-group bonds. This is driving us apart even more. I want to know how do people who think differently than I do think.

CryptoPunk 6y ago
>>Is "cancel culture" new? What happened in the past to people who would say inconvenient things (swear words or blasfemies in TV, being homosexual, ...)? Ostracization/cancellation of the non-conforming doesn't seem to be new. My point is that this kind of behavior is the modern corollary to witch hunts. The Left Wing manifestation of it seen in modern times is called Cancel Culture, but all of its forms, past and present, have beeh types of mob persection in my opinion.

pizzazzaro 6y ago

Especially when the boogieman of "Cancel Culture" usually fuels growth for whoever is boycotted? Louis CK is making more money than ever after being "Cancelled". Which viable 2020 Presidential Candidate hasnt been cancelled? More rational heads need to point out how silly this line of reasoning is. But sometimes people need to feel threatened to (paradoxically) help their ego, and infect others with the paranoia. so here we are. There's this nasty problem of police brutality aimed at the black community. You might have heard about it. Breonna Taylor was shot dead in her sleep by an officer who was not (initially) charged. in her sleep. No consequences until the uproar. Elijah McClain did not reach for any officer's gun. George Floyd did nothing wrong. The list goes on too long to mention, even in the last year. And we can point back to the George Floyd of the 90's in LA... Or those immigrant refugees we keep putting in cages. Did ya know that policy was the brainchild of Stephen Miller, who was unmasked as a White Nationalidt by documents delivered Democracy Now? The architect of "kids crammed in cages" under Trump actually uses the words, "White" and "Power" together. Or there's those natives we herded onto reservations, made promises to, and never delivered. A genocide that actually inspired Hitler. Note that Godwin has rescinded his law in the face of a rising tide of actual Fascism worldwide. Or hell - $0.77 / $1 is what the average woman makes, compared to men in the same industry. The LGBT+ community has their own complex weave of challenges above what their non-LGBTQIA+ peers experience. Some of these can include an increased likelihood for death by cop, or lynching. Even in the US. But especially in other countries, like Russia. But oh, something you said was unintentionally hurtful. Welcome to adulthood in the 21st century. Most times? Apologize, learn, dont do it again, and nobody has to care. If its that bad that it still sticks? Time for some community service hours interacting peacably with the aggrieved community. Just get and try to stay involved. Nobody will have room to care in any way that hurts you when you have personal stories of a personal connection made by uplifting people. Not just "one friend", an actual community. But yet, we have TWO Presidential candidates that have been "Cancelled"™©®, with giving so much as an apology. And nobody cares about that. Cancel Culture is practically a government spook! Or rather, the fear of it is.