4 ms·

I too am skeptical of the psychoactivity of plain safrole. It lacks an ethylamine, nay, any nitrogen, which is what makes virtually all analogs of dopamine and

by kortex 6y ago

I too am skeptical of the psychoactivity of plain safrole. It lacks an ethylamine, nay, any nitrogen, which is what makes virtually all analogs of dopamine and serotonin structurally active. You kinda need that N-C-C-Ar (aromatic: phenyl, indolyl, etc) moeity to work. It's probably a misunderstanding by way of synedoche of sass(afrass oil) or safrole being used as the precursur. Most likely "sass" or "safrole" is MDA.

gavinray 6y ago
I don't think Safrole in isolate is psychoactive either. Shulgin has written extensively about the essential oils, and the closest paper to this particular topic I can recall is "The chemistry and psychopharmacology of nutmeg and of several related phenylisopropylamines." http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.689.3346&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.689... Nutmeg happens to be primarily composed of Safrole, Myristicin and Elemicin, and is certainly psychoactive, but I doubt it's the Safrole. There are thus several possibilities by which one or more of the aromatic components might be implicated as psychotropic agents; 1. One of the compounds that is present only in very small amounts may have unusually high potency, 2. Elemicin may be a major contributor of activity, or 3. A combination of two or more of the aromatics present may be involved. The three most abundant ones, myristicin, elemicin and safrole may be sufficient to account for the total activity. And yes, "Sass" is the street term for MDA. Whether or not the supposed "Sass" is actually MDA is anyone's guess. On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^) The common synthesis nowadays is through PMK glycidate bought from China. Reflux with HCl will yield base PMK (aka MD-P2P) and one can proceed via the normal route from there.
- derefr 6y ago
  I'm not sure whether safrole is psychoactive, but safrole oxide—noted in several sources as being a safrole metabolite, though never a major one—induces apoptosis in nerve cells (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17188719/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17188719/). That probably feel like... something. Maybe good? But probably not the "recreational drug" kind of good. Maybe more the "smell of leaded car exhaust" kind of good. (Given that you'd probably get safrole oxide by having safrole inside a cell while that cell is experiencing oxidative stress, one might infer that safrole is playing a role here similar to a caspase zymogen: "sensitizing" the cell to stress such that it will apoptose.) > On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^) And meth isn't made from pseudoephedrine any more either. In both cases, that seems to have more to do with the fact that the government has made it hard to acquire the reagents, than that the new route is cheaper per se. (Especially for the small-batch synthesis that upstart gangs are fond of, where economies of scale don't begin to apply.)

by kortex 6y ago

gavinray 6y ago

I don't think Safrole in isolate is psychoactive either. Shulgin has written extensively about the essential oils, and the closest paper to this particular topic I can recall is "The chemistry and psychopharmacology of nutmeg and of several related phenylisopropylamines." http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.689.3346&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.689... Nutmeg happens to be primarily composed of Safrole, Myristicin and Elemicin, and is certainly psychoactive, but I doubt it's the Safrole. There are thus several possibilities by which one or more of the aromatic components might be implicated as psychotropic agents; 1. One of the compounds that is present only in very small amounts may have unusually high potency, 2. Elemicin may be a major contributor of activity, or 3. A combination of two or more of the aromatics present may be involved. The three most abundant ones, myristicin, elemicin and safrole may be sufficient to account for the total activity. And yes, "Sass" is the street term for MDA. Whether or not the supposed "Sass" is actually MDA is anyone's guess. On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^) The common synthesis nowadays is through PMK glycidate bought from China. Reflux with HCl will yield base PMK (aka MD-P2P) and one can proceed via the normal route from there.

derefr 6y ago
I'm not sure whether safrole is psychoactive, but safrole oxide—noted in several sources as being a safrole metabolite, though never a major one—induces apoptosis in nerve cells (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17188719/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17188719/). That probably feel like... something. Maybe good? But probably not the "recreational drug" kind of good. Maybe more the "smell of leaded car exhaust" kind of good. (Given that you'd probably get safrole oxide by having safrole inside a cell while that cell is experiencing oxidative stress, one might infer that safrole is playing a role here similar to a caspase zymogen: "sensitizing" the cell to stress such that it will apoptose.) > On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^) And meth isn't made from pseudoephedrine any more either. In both cases, that seems to have more to do with the fact that the government has made it hard to acquire the reagents, than that the new route is cheaper per se. (Especially for the small-batch synthesis that upstart gangs are fond of, where economies of scale don't begin to apply.)