6 ms·

No. To get the same amount of quality in india you’ll be paying roughly the same - and then have cultural and timezone barriers.

Arfiraaa 6y ago
I don't think it's fair to assume the quality of Indian workers is worse. They are paid less purely because of cost of living and locational differences. Uber is smart enough to know this and it's the exact reason they will end up paying less for similar quality. Also, in every company there are jobs that are trivial and jobs that require talent. I assume the more trivial jobs like bug fixing will be outsourced, while the rest of the engineers are kept for product design.
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  > They are paid less purely because of cost of living and locational differences. Cost of living is a red herring. No one’s going to pay me more if I live in Manhattan rather than the suburbs of Boise if they can avoid it. It’s all about the locational differences. If there’s a thick, liquid market for the product you’re selling, your labour, you’ll get a good price for it. If there isn’t employers have substantially more power to set wages. A lot of the reason engineers in SV get paid more is that they’re just better but the engineers in Boulder are pretty great too and fewer of them are getting those wages, even fewer in Boise. All about the competition for talent.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    It's all interrelated though. If Silicon Valley CoL were more along the lines of the many Tier 2 areas where there is a lot of tech of various kinds, the big SV employers wouldn't have to pay as big a premium to get people to relocate. They'd still pay a premium to get the talent they want, but they wouldn't have to also basically cover the difference in housing costs needed. But it's complicated. For that matter, you could argue that the perks of Bay Area weather and great number of employment options should make the Bay Area attractive even if the salaries weren't great relative to CoL. But there's enough competition among large employers who generate enough value per employee that they can afford to offer top-shelf salaries so they do so to entice the people they want. To the last point, I don't expect dramatic short term changes. But to the degree that things tilt more in the direction of remote work and small distributed offices, I expect some equalization of salaries at least within the US.
joefourier 6y ago
What about moving to Europe? Salaries in the UK, Ireland, Germany and the Netherlands are much lower than in the US, and even lower in Central/Eastern Europe. While the timezone barrier is still there (although lower than India), the work culture is basically the same as in the United States (except with more work-life balance). Actually, why not Canada? Salaries are again much lower than Silicon Valley, the timezone is the same, the language is the same (except in Quebec), and it would be great to stop Canadian software engineers from moving to the US in droves due to lack of opportunities at home.
- thrawa934234 6y ago
  The difference b/w salaries in EU/E.Asia and India are not that large for FAANG-like companies IMO. It's likely the case that Uber will allow its Indian employees to relocate back to India, in light of both Covid and the new visa restrictions.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  They already do what you're saying, by some extent (maybe not Canada right now, and of course, finding English-speaking developers in Quebec is a non-issue)
searchableguy 6y ago
I think you are pretty wrong on that mark. I know fairly good devs in India who can't get a job because most pays so bad that they end up either switching the field or moving to somewhere abroad. Sometimes, they just wander around like ghosts on family money. Unlike US, it's not uncommon to spend your whole life with your parents/joint family. To get a good job in India, you will need more than skills - connections and a limited edition degree.
sbmthakur 6y ago
> paying roughly the same Any references for that?
codegeek 6y ago
Not true at all (I have team members in India). It is not even close to "roughly the same". For a decent engineer with 2-5 years of experience, you would pay anywhere from 8K-20K USD PER YEAR. That's average. Sometimes even lower than the 8K and sometimes higher than the 20K. Indian engineers making more than 20k-25K USD Per Year are considered top talent in most companies across India. Are there engineers making more ? Yes absolutely. Are they a minority ? Yes, absolutely.

Arfiraaa 6y ago

I don't think it's fair to assume the quality of Indian workers is worse. They are paid less purely because of cost of living and locational differences. Uber is smart enough to know this and it's the exact reason they will end up paying less for similar quality. Also, in every company there are jobs that are trivial and jobs that require talent. I assume the more trivial jobs like bug fixing will be outsourced, while the rest of the engineers are kept for product design.

barry-cotter 6y ago
> They are paid less purely because of cost of living and locational differences. Cost of living is a red herring. No one’s going to pay me more if I live in Manhattan rather than the suburbs of Boise if they can avoid it. It’s all about the locational differences. If there’s a thick, liquid market for the product you’re selling, your labour, you’ll get a good price for it. If there isn’t employers have substantially more power to set wages. A lot of the reason engineers in SV get paid more is that they’re just better but the engineers in Boulder are pretty great too and fewer of them are getting those wages, even fewer in Boise. All about the competition for talent.
- ghaff 6y ago
  It's all interrelated though. If Silicon Valley CoL were more along the lines of the many Tier 2 areas where there is a lot of tech of various kinds, the big SV employers wouldn't have to pay as big a premium to get people to relocate. They'd still pay a premium to get the talent they want, but they wouldn't have to also basically cover the difference in housing costs needed. But it's complicated. For that matter, you could argue that the perks of Bay Area weather and great number of employment options should make the Bay Area attractive even if the salaries weren't great relative to CoL. But there's enough competition among large employers who generate enough value per employee that they can afford to offer top-shelf salaries so they do so to entice the people they want. To the last point, I don't expect dramatic short term changes. But to the degree that things tilt more in the direction of remote work and small distributed offices, I expect some equalization of salaries at least within the US.

joefourier 6y ago

What about moving to Europe? Salaries in the UK, Ireland, Germany and the Netherlands are much lower than in the US, and even lower in Central/Eastern Europe. While the timezone barrier is still there (although lower than India), the work culture is basically the same as in the United States (except with more work-life balance). Actually, why not Canada? Salaries are again much lower than Silicon Valley, the timezone is the same, the language is the same (except in Quebec), and it would be great to stop Canadian software engineers from moving to the US in droves due to lack of opportunities at home.

thrawa934234 6y ago
The difference b/w salaries in EU/E.Asia and India are not that large for FAANG-like companies IMO. It's likely the case that Uber will allow its Indian employees to relocate back to India, in light of both Covid and the new visa restrictions.
raverbashing 6y ago
They already do what you're saying, by some extent (maybe not Canada right now, and of course, finding English-speaking developers in Quebec is a non-issue)

searchableguy 6y ago

I think you are pretty wrong on that mark. I know fairly good devs in India who can't get a job because most pays so bad that they end up either switching the field or moving to somewhere abroad. Sometimes, they just wander around like ghosts on family money. Unlike US, it's not uncommon to spend your whole life with your parents/joint family. To get a good job in India, you will need more than skills - connections and a limited edition degree.

sbmthakur 6y ago

> paying roughly the same Any references for that?

codegeek 6y ago

Not true at all (I have team members in India). It is not even close to "roughly the same". For a decent engineer with 2-5 years of experience, you would pay anywhere from 8K-20K USD PER YEAR. That's average. Sometimes even lower than the 8K and sometimes higher than the 20K. Indian engineers making more than 20k-25K USD Per Year are considered top talent in most companies across India. Are there engineers making more ? Yes absolutely. Are they a minority ? Yes, absolutely.