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If it seemed that I'm lumping the last two together with the complete negativity of the others, that's not my intent. These modern sudden positive moral shifts

If it seemed that I'm lumping the last two together with the complete negativity of the others, that's not my intent. These modern sudden positive moral shifts are new phenomena made possible by the internet (and so one would be hard pressed to come up with significant older examples besides the temperance movement), whereas the older (negative) shifts were all driven by fear. But it doesn't change the fact that opportunistic, unscrupulous people can and will take advantage of them in the same ways, and unlucky people will be trampled underfoot. The mob effect is very hard to counter because the rules of evidence range from low to non-existent. It's a question of momentum; all you need is a catalyst to set things in motion (for good or bad).

maxerickson 6y ago
Your lead paragraph omits anything about why they are included. Anytime there's a moral shift (good or bad), there's an opportunity to co-opt it in order to remove rivals, and it works very nicely because all you need to do is sow seeds of doubt about someone if they happen to be in a vulnerable group, and then let the mob do the rest That doesn't much address the dynamics of #metoo or Black Lives Matter.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  What I mean by "moral shift" is a rapid change (as in over the course of months rather than decades) in what society considers morally correct and acceptable. The dynamics of #metoo and BLM are different in that they are addressing longstanding attitudes and behaviors contributing to oppression or harassment of a minority group (I use the term "minority" very liberally considering that women make up 50% of the population). We've also seen other moral shifts such as with homosexuality, although there was no "punishing wrongdoers" phase following that movement. It's only when a punishing phase gets mixed in that you run the danger of mob justice, because there will likely at the time be either no laws covering the issue, or weakly enforced laws. Without clear leadership on what's right and wrong and the consequences, opportunists take it upon themselves to mete out punishment as they see fit. Sometimes it's for the better, but usually it gets out of hand pretty quickly.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Again, the "poster" incidents complained about under BLM and #metoo were already illegal, at least per the written law, which is why e.g. Bill Cosby went to prison. It was never legal for him to sexually assault his victims. It was just "de facto" legal because of the difficulty in prosecuting.
    - kstenerud 6y ago
      > Again, Again? What is being repeated? > incidents complained about under BLM and #metoo were already illegal Yes, which is why I said "weakly enforced laws".

maxerickson 6y ago

Your lead paragraph omits anything about why they are included. Anytime there's a moral shift (good or bad), there's an opportunity to co-opt it in order to remove rivals, and it works very nicely because all you need to do is sow seeds of doubt about someone if they happen to be in a vulnerable group, and then let the mob do the rest That doesn't much address the dynamics of #metoo or Black Lives Matter.

kstenerud 6y ago
What I mean by "moral shift" is a rapid change (as in over the course of months rather than decades) in what society considers morally correct and acceptable. The dynamics of #metoo and BLM are different in that they are addressing longstanding attitudes and behaviors contributing to oppression or harassment of a minority group (I use the term "minority" very liberally considering that women make up 50% of the population). We've also seen other moral shifts such as with homosexuality, although there was no "punishing wrongdoers" phase following that movement. It's only when a punishing phase gets mixed in that you run the danger of mob justice, because there will likely at the time be either no laws covering the issue, or weakly enforced laws. Without clear leadership on what's right and wrong and the consequences, opportunists take it upon themselves to mete out punishment as they see fit. Sometimes it's for the better, but usually it gets out of hand pretty quickly.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Again, the "poster" incidents complained about under BLM and #metoo were already illegal, at least per the written law, which is why e.g. Bill Cosby went to prison. It was never legal for him to sexually assault his victims. It was just "de facto" legal because of the difficulty in prosecuting.
  - kstenerud 6y ago
    > Again, Again? What is being repeated? > incidents complained about under BLM and #metoo were already illegal Yes, which is why I said "weakly enforced laws".