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Did you really delete your account because they want to measure whether people are being discriminated against (with an opt out available)? That seems pretty aw

Did you really delete your account because they want to measure whether people are being discriminated against (with an opt out available)? That seems pretty awful given all the racism that people are fighting hard to stop. As far as the pandemic goes, Airbnb has a lot less turnover than hotels and there are mandated days between guests to ensure the virus cannot live on any surfaces. That’s much safer than you’re going to get at a hotel with a lobby that has hundreds of guests coming in and out every day. Half the things you pay extra for at a hotel are now useless (gym, room service) whereas the benefits of an Airbnb like having a real kitchen and more private space are worth more now.

dgellow 6y ago
How is deleting their account worse than opting out? Or are you implying that opting out of their studies is also an awful thing?
- mrgordon 6y ago
  Deleting or opting out is fine if that’s what you really want to do. But making a big public announcement that you deleted your account because they started an optional study to try to stop discrimination is pretty awful. You’re basically sending them (and everyone on this forum) a message that if they try to help discrimination then they will lose users. It’s a lose-lose for Airbnb. They either do nothing and people blame the platform for passive discrimination or they try to improve it and then have to deal with people blaming them for being big brother and deleting their accounts in a fit of rage. MIT just had to remove a major AI dataset that was used to teach hundreds of AIs. It had numerous examples of black people and monkeys labeled with the N-word and has trained systematic bias into our algorithms. This type of bias cannot be fought by hiding from the problem. What Airbnb is doing is courageous and you are free to opt-out if you don’t like it, but taking a big public stand against an organization for actually trying to improve things for minorities in 2020 is pretty tone deaf.
  - dgellow 6y ago
    That’s fair, but also a strawman. I haven’t seen anyone make a statement against the actual research they want to do, the issue is regarding the opt-out approach that they hide behind a “forced opt-in to share your data for the good cause”. I don’t think anyone would complain if it was implemented as an opt-in.
    - mrgordon 6y ago
      No one would complain if it was opt-in because only 0.1% of people would even notice it was happening and sign up. It’s not a straw man because one can’t study racial discrimination at scale by having a few random users opt-in to sharing their race. You either design an effective program or why bother to pretend you’re helping?
  - bmarquez 6y ago
    Airbnb is a for-profit company with a controversial record, not a credible research institution. If they wanted to do this with no controversy, they would have a) had an institution send out the email to provide credibility, b) provide clear opt-ins, c) not hide behind a "We know your privacy is important" cliché instead of actually acting that way. > but taking a big public stand against an organization for actually trying to improve things for minorities in 2020 is pretty tone deaf From the email: "we’ll use first names and profile photos from hosts and guests to help us understand the perceived race someone might associate with them...We’ll use this information to help us understand when and where racial discrimination is happening on our platform." So if I get rejected for trying to book a room, my brown face will be labeled "minority" and be used as a datapoint to help improve the company. I have every right to disagree with how Airbnb is going about this especially from a privacy perspective, and do so vocally.
    - mrgordon 6y ago
      Yep you have every right, you just come across as an entitled white dude who doesn’t give a fuck about the problems in this country. You’re still arguing it should be opt-in which misses the obvious point that something like this could never get enough opt-ins to work because people are lazy and aren’t even going to bother to read it.
maest 6y ago
> Did you really delete your account because they want to measure whether people are being discriminated against (with an opt out available)? Man, this comment and some similar sibling comments betray this mentality where racism is the ultimate evil and, thus, anything done in the name of fighting racism is justified. In particular, multiple people seem to think you're not allowed to criticise Airbnb's approach to handling private data _because Airbnb purportedly is using it to somehow fight discrimination_. Nevermind that: * There's no transparency about how this 3rd party will use the data * There's no data on how effective their approach will be. * The default is opt-in, not opt-out. * Airbnb has done ethically dubious things before. Yet, according to some comments, if you don't let Airbnb use your data, you're supporting the racists/being tone deaf.

dgellow 6y ago

How is deleting their account worse than opting out? Or are you implying that opting out of their studies is also an awful thing?

mrgordon 6y ago
Deleting or opting out is fine if that’s what you really want to do. But making a big public announcement that you deleted your account because they started an optional study to try to stop discrimination is pretty awful. You’re basically sending them (and everyone on this forum) a message that if they try to help discrimination then they will lose users. It’s a lose-lose for Airbnb. They either do nothing and people blame the platform for passive discrimination or they try to improve it and then have to deal with people blaming them for being big brother and deleting their accounts in a fit of rage. MIT just had to remove a major AI dataset that was used to teach hundreds of AIs. It had numerous examples of black people and monkeys labeled with the N-word and has trained systematic bias into our algorithms. This type of bias cannot be fought by hiding from the problem. What Airbnb is doing is courageous and you are free to opt-out if you don’t like it, but taking a big public stand against an organization for actually trying to improve things for minorities in 2020 is pretty tone deaf.
- dgellow 6y ago
  That’s fair, but also a strawman. I haven’t seen anyone make a statement against the actual research they want to do, the issue is regarding the opt-out approach that they hide behind a “forced opt-in to share your data for the good cause”. I don’t think anyone would complain if it was implemented as an opt-in.
  - mrgordon 6y ago
    No one would complain if it was opt-in because only 0.1% of people would even notice it was happening and sign up. It’s not a straw man because one can’t study racial discrimination at scale by having a few random users opt-in to sharing their race. You either design an effective program or why bother to pretend you’re helping?
- bmarquez 6y ago
  Airbnb is a for-profit company with a controversial record, not a credible research institution. If they wanted to do this with no controversy, they would have a) had an institution send out the email to provide credibility, b) provide clear opt-ins, c) not hide behind a "We know your privacy is important" cliché instead of actually acting that way. > but taking a big public stand against an organization for actually trying to improve things for minorities in 2020 is pretty tone deaf From the email: "we’ll use first names and profile photos from hosts and guests to help us understand the perceived race someone might associate with them...We’ll use this information to help us understand when and where racial discrimination is happening on our platform." So if I get rejected for trying to book a room, my brown face will be labeled "minority" and be used as a datapoint to help improve the company. I have every right to disagree with how Airbnb is going about this especially from a privacy perspective, and do so vocally.
  - mrgordon 6y ago
    Yep you have every right, you just come across as an entitled white dude who doesn’t give a fuck about the problems in this country. You’re still arguing it should be opt-in which misses the obvious point that something like this could never get enough opt-ins to work because people are lazy and aren’t even going to bother to read it.

maest 6y ago

> Did you really delete your account because they want to measure whether people are being discriminated against (with an opt out available)? Man, this comment and some similar sibling comments betray this mentality where racism is the ultimate evil and, thus, anything done in the name of fighting racism is justified. In particular, multiple people seem to think you're not allowed to criticise Airbnb's approach to handling private data _because Airbnb purportedly is using it to somehow fight discrimination_. Nevermind that: * There's no transparency about how this 3rd party will use the data * There's no data on how effective their approach will be. * The default is opt-in, not opt-out. * Airbnb has done ethically dubious things before. Yet, according to some comments, if you don't let Airbnb use your data, you're supporting the racists/being tone deaf.