4 ms·

Admission is a privilege. It's not punishment to withdraw a privilege from people who do harmful things. Racist speech and actions are harmful and hurtful, and

Admission is a privilege. It's not punishment to withdraw a privilege from people who do harmful things. Racist speech and actions are harmful and hurtful, and preventing people who have demonstrated such extreme disregard for others from attending a college serves to protect people attending and working at the school. There is a legal, and I would argue a moral, obligation that schools have to prevent racial harassment of their students and staff. There's also their own reputation to consider. I wish people here were more sensitive and sympathetic to the folks who are genuinely hurting, and less worried about the loss of privilege that people face for their own bad choices. Black people see family members, friends and members of their community denigrated, insulted, harassed, oppressed and even killed by racists and racist systems. Having Black people I'm close to in my life, I can honestly say that many White people have no concept of how horrible things are, and quite a lot don't want to know. One thing I've always appreciated about my fellow hackers is a sense of fairness, an ideal of justice, a desire for truth and a willingness to face criticism and learn from mistakes. We need to be fair to the people who haven't done anything wrong except be born with the wrong skin tone.

vulcan01 6y ago
> Admission is a privilege. Can someone say this to my friends? They tend to see it as a right. "Look at all my achievements that I worked so hard for. I must be admitted."
- lsiebert 6y ago
  You can say it to them yourself. I feel like one thing I learned as I got a little older is that, even if it's uncomfortable, it's important to tell people when they could do better.
  - toomanyrichies 6y ago
    Exactly. If they can't expect to hear hard truths from their friends, who can they expect to hear them from?
- dabbernaught420 6y ago
  Your friends sound like they probably believe that admission is a privilege - it's just that they also believe they deserve and have earned that privilege.
salawat 6y ago
>I wish people here were more sensitive and sympathetic to the folks who are genuinely hurting. What makes you think people aren't? Disagreement on the virtues of Universities using a political hot button issue as a means to discriminate doesn't mean people aren't sympathetic. At most it means there's are differences in prioritization of what should come before what in regards to how the "System" operates. >...and less worried about the loss of privilege that people face for their own bad choices. Now who's being unsympathetic? And for that matter, wasn't it the Left who have been pounding the "higher education is a right" the last few years? This is what bugs me about this shift to the use of social media mob tactics, and the undying record created by freezing in time every detail of everyone's life via private social media companies. Instead of a People united in the understanding we all screw up, and change over time, always trying to better ourselves day after day, we've turned the social media presence of a person into the ultimate scapegoat and tool of prejudicial dismissal. The very thing that the Liberal movement of my youth was dead set against. You didn't judge someone by what they'd done, but by how they'd changed, and the changes they're trying to realize. Furthermore, the purpose of a University is not to provide a safe space for the academic elite. It is an intellectual battleground, upon which the very foundations of human thought are broken down, relaid, and broken down again on a day to day basis. It is where the hard, but necessary questions are asked and answered. It is a place where the very fibers of a human being can be ripped asunder and rebuilt through the gaining of new perspective and through learning the art of transformational learning, research, and rhetorical communication. If you cannot see why it is not in a University's best interest to turn away sharp, inquisitive minds of any shape, and to not feel pause at the weaponizatiom of admission into an institution of higher learning as some sort of political virtue signaling mechanism, then I don't know what to say to you other than I'm disappointed you feel that the sacred mission of a University to sharpen, redirect, and hone young minds is unimportant enough to be wielded as little more than as some sort of brand. >We need to be fair to the people who haven't done anything wrong except be born with the wrong skin tone. The poster opines on other's racism, as he makes a value judgement on the basis of life with a particular skin tone. There is no wrong skin tone, just other people more than willing to tell you there is one. If I had any advice to anyone reading this, it is to ignore such people. To listen, and give weight to it is to even acknowledge that such a state of affairs has legitimacy through the sheer populations of other people that indulge in it. Grit your teeth and push on through. You'll come out the other side that much stronger for having done it on your own, and will never have to entertain a second thought that anything you earned was unjustly given.
david38 6y ago
Anything can be hurtful. By definition free speech will insult someone at some point. There is a big difference between someone who has accomplished something and someone who has not crossed anyone. Looking for talent is one thing, lack of faults is another. So race is the safe space right now. What next? Shall we deny admissions to anyone who used the term “bitches”? Since we’re denying for racism, will we be denying admission to any minorities who post hateful comments about whites? Racism is racism. What if those whites are Jews? Are they protected then? What if they’re Christian? Immigrants from persecution? But you can’t tell that by the color of the person’s skin. All most people will see is “white” or worse “white patriarchy”. If they’ve had direct family members killed, does that give them enough suffering points to compete with historical injustices? What if they are already attending classes? Do we expel them? Now we have restricted speech on campus, campuses where liberals frequently shout down ideas they don’t like at non-mandatory events instead of simply not attending. If we don’t expel them we’re sending the message that punishment for social transgressions as a minor are more severe than as an adult. That an institution will punish you more for an unwritten or at least unadvertised rule than later, when they have the opportunity to make it super clear. Unless this is only exercised in the most extreme cases, it’s nothing more than pandering to the current movements because you’re selecting those who are ignorant enough to post stupid shit online. Don’t get me wrong, some people are incredibly stupid in their conclusions (often from selection bias) and their actions (posting said conclusion on FB), but since I doubt it will applied equally, I’m not a believer. All kinds of people hurt for different reasons. Why is everyone’s responsibility to be concerned about other people’s hurt? I’m a minority and immigrant. My birth country has gone through such massive amounts of murders and fairly recent genocide I doubt most Americans can even contemplate such numbers. I see racial slurs against where I’m from and the people don’t even know it’s a slur, that’s how common it is. Is it everyone’s responsibility to be aware of my feelings? No. Funny thing, if I’m insulted because of a lie related to my birth country, I’m a minority and have the right to be angry. If I’m insulted because of a lie related to me being a guy, it’s male fragility. Gatekeeping at its best.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

vulcan01 6y ago

> Admission is a privilege. Can someone say this to my friends? They tend to see it as a right. "Look at all my achievements that I worked so hard for. I must be admitted."

lsiebert 6y ago
You can say it to them yourself. I feel like one thing I learned as I got a little older is that, even if it's uncomfortable, it's important to tell people when they could do better.
- toomanyrichies 6y ago
  Exactly. If they can't expect to hear hard truths from their friends, who can they expect to hear them from?
dabbernaught420 6y ago
Your friends sound like they probably believe that admission is a privilege - it's just that they also believe they deserve and have earned that privilege.

salawat 6y ago

>I wish people here were more sensitive and sympathetic to the folks who are genuinely hurting. What makes you think people aren't? Disagreement on the virtues of Universities using a political hot button issue as a means to discriminate doesn't mean people aren't sympathetic. At most it means there's are differences in prioritization of what should come before what in regards to how the "System" operates. >...and less worried about the loss of privilege that people face for their own bad choices. Now who's being unsympathetic? And for that matter, wasn't it the Left who have been pounding the "higher education is a right" the last few years? This is what bugs me about this shift to the use of social media mob tactics, and the undying record created by freezing in time every detail of everyone's life via private social media companies. Instead of a People united in the understanding we all screw up, and change over time, always trying to better ourselves day after day, we've turned the social media presence of a person into the ultimate scapegoat and tool of prejudicial dismissal. The very thing that the Liberal movement of my youth was dead set against. You didn't judge someone by what they'd done, but by how they'd changed, and the changes they're trying to realize. Furthermore, the purpose of a University is not to provide a safe space for the academic elite. It is an intellectual battleground, upon which the very foundations of human thought are broken down, relaid, and broken down again on a day to day basis. It is where the hard, but necessary questions are asked and answered. It is a place where the very fibers of a human being can be ripped asunder and rebuilt through the gaining of new perspective and through learning the art of transformational learning, research, and rhetorical communication. If you cannot see why it is not in a University's best interest to turn away sharp, inquisitive minds of any shape, and to not feel pause at the weaponizatiom of admission into an institution of higher learning as some sort of political virtue signaling mechanism, then I don't know what to say to you other than I'm disappointed you feel that the sacred mission of a University to sharpen, redirect, and hone young minds is unimportant enough to be wielded as little more than as some sort of brand. >We need to be fair to the people who haven't done anything wrong except be born with the wrong skin tone. The poster opines on other's racism, as he makes a value judgement on the basis of life with a particular skin tone. There is no wrong skin tone, just other people more than willing to tell you there is one. If I had any advice to anyone reading this, it is to ignore such people. To listen, and give weight to it is to even acknowledge that such a state of affairs has legitimacy through the sheer populations of other people that indulge in it. Grit your teeth and push on through. You'll come out the other side that much stronger for having done it on your own, and will never have to entertain a second thought that anything you earned was unjustly given.

david38 6y ago

Anything can be hurtful. By definition free speech will insult someone at some point. There is a big difference between someone who has accomplished something and someone who has not crossed anyone. Looking for talent is one thing, lack of faults is another. So race is the safe space right now. What next? Shall we deny admissions to anyone who used the term “bitches”? Since we’re denying for racism, will we be denying admission to any minorities who post hateful comments about whites? Racism is racism. What if those whites are Jews? Are they protected then? What if they’re Christian? Immigrants from persecution? But you can’t tell that by the color of the person’s skin. All most people will see is “white” or worse “white patriarchy”. If they’ve had direct family members killed, does that give them enough suffering points to compete with historical injustices? What if they are already attending classes? Do we expel them? Now we have restricted speech on campus, campuses where liberals frequently shout down ideas they don’t like at non-mandatory events instead of simply not attending. If we don’t expel them we’re sending the message that punishment for social transgressions as a minor are more severe than as an adult. That an institution will punish you more for an unwritten or at least unadvertised rule than later, when they have the opportunity to make it super clear. Unless this is only exercised in the most extreme cases, it’s nothing more than pandering to the current movements because you’re selecting those who are ignorant enough to post stupid shit online. Don’t get me wrong, some people are incredibly stupid in their conclusions (often from selection bias) and their actions (posting said conclusion on FB), but since I doubt it will applied equally, I’m not a believer. All kinds of people hurt for different reasons. Why is everyone’s responsibility to be concerned about other people’s hurt? I’m a minority and immigrant. My birth country has gone through such massive amounts of murders and fairly recent genocide I doubt most Americans can even contemplate such numbers. I see racial slurs against where I’m from and the people don’t even know it’s a slur, that’s how common it is. Is it everyone’s responsibility to be aware of my feelings? No. Funny thing, if I’m insulted because of a lie related to my birth country, I’m a minority and have the right to be angry. If I’m insulted because of a lie related to me being a guy, it’s male fragility. Gatekeeping at its best.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]