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2017 - I remember when Trump had initiated the trade war, it was such a taboo to support it. I am not a fan of trump but the progressives in the Silicon Valley

2017 - I remember when Trump had initiated the trade war, it was such a taboo to support it. I am not a fan of trump but the progressives in the Silicon Valley would abandon me in a mob mentality god forbid if I said something I like about Trump. I had pretty unpleasant pushbacks during lunch breaks and then I stopped discussing things all together. Living here in the valley, I wonder what’s the difference between aggressively progressive places and aggressively conservative places like a small town in Arkansas? To me, they are both intolerant of opposing views, don't think for themselves and subscribe to extremely strong stances. Being a centrist, I feel like I am exiled in this country by all sides. The stronger one's view, the more burden is on them to prove their view with data, successive chain of logic and reasoning. I am constantly wary of my own views because either circumstances change, my understanding improves or new data is available. This is the HN way.

crunchyfrog 6y ago
Trump's trade war was an attempt to pressure China to reduce the trade deficit and help him in the 2020 election. It had absolutely nothing to do with human rights. If anything, Trump admires dictators who violate the human rights of their citizens. There absolutely nothing logical about supporting a policy that superficially looks like a policy you support but has entirely different goals.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  Who's talking about human rights? I was talking about economics of trade, which is what this article is about. > Trump's trade war was an attempt to pressure China to reduce the trade deficit and help him in the 2020 election. Yes, I support this view, although I don't support his re-election. > If anything, Trump admires dictators who violate the human rights of their citizens. Agreed, this was absolutely reprehensible and don't forget Russia. I honestly have no energy to debate anymore. And this is not something I want to get into right now, the point was about being tolerant to other's views and try to understand why they think that way.
refurb 6y ago
Indeed. The tactics and intolerance for different opinions is pretty similar on both ends of the political spectrum. I think the US would make a huge leap forward if different political opinions we're viewed with "I disagree with you" versus "your beliefs mean youre a bad person".
11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
It was inconceivable to me even one year ago that American citizens could be beaten in public for supporting the president. This is not rational in any explanation.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
  Downvoters: describe your rational explanation for beating an American citizen in public because they support the president.
  - saltedonion 6y ago
    I will explain. Hackernews is a leftist ideological echo chamber. If you scroll through this thread you’ll notice downvoted posts don’t even get a good reply as to why they’re wrong. The down-voters are hurt and clueless.
  - lifeformed 6y ago
    It's a strawman. There isn't some rash of unprovoked public beatings of people because they happen to be Trump supporters.
    - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
      Watch the video. The first assault is mild. The student punched in the face could have knocked teeth out: https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/rising-political-tension https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/rising-political-tension Punched in the face for wearing a hat in Russian. The assailant couldn't read it, but attacked once the wearer told him the translation: https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-beaten-up-in-california-restaurant-over-his-russian-maga-hat-cops https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-beaten-up-in-california-re... And here is seven pages of a Political Violence Report, official congressional record: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20190409/109266/HHRG-116-JU00-20190409-SD008.pdf https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20190409/109266/HHRG... Here are three more, including an 81 year-old man: https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/28/maga-hat-wearing-victims-are-still-victims/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/28/maga-hat-wearing-vic... This was a serious beating, an art gallery owner: https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-city-gallery-owner-attacked-wearing-make-america/story?id=64731770 https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-city-gallery-owner-attacked-w... Citing the Berkeley assault, this guy wrote and app to help conservatives find safe places to dine out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/11/need-safe-place-wear-your-maga-hat-new-app-will-help-conservatives-find-one/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/11/need-safe... This is attempted murder: https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-arrested-allegedly-driving-van-gop-registration-tent/story?id=68859140 https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-arrested-allegedly-driving-van...
jkinudsjknds 6y ago
Conservatism is a poor descriptor for the driving ideology of the American right these days. Progressiveism is sometimes on the radar of the mainstream left but generally not. The notion of centrism is pretty meaningless when the endpoints are shifting constantly. "Centrism" in the United States often means conservative views, but not Trump right wing crazy- but being conservative means trending towards maintaining existing power structures which is incompatible with those who want progressive change. The terms are all ultimately meaningless meat shields for empty rhetoric.
rdlecler1 6y ago
As a centrist saying. Irving particularly offensive your post was downvoted. I feel my days on HN are numbered. One used to be able to have an intellectually honest discussion. Now step out of line and it’s downvotes. This kind of monoculture isn’t healthy.
- saltedonion 6y ago
  Nope. Hackernews is an leftist ideological echo chamber and I love it.
  - rdlecler1 6y ago
    I feel bad for anyone who can’t handle diversity of opinion and the destruction it always causes.
- mythrwy 6y ago
  Just say your thing and make your reasoned points and who cares about downvotes.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
    Downvotes are a flag for disagreement. I am interested in the reasoned points of those who disagree with me. Since I was downvoted and no comment was left, I requested that those who downvoted come forth with their reasoned points. One or both of us have an opportunity to learn something when that happens.
addicted 6y ago
Nothing Trump has done has come close to the massive gift Trump gave China by killing the TPP. This idea that Trump is somehow harder on China is laughable. Trump has been screaming China loudly, but his actions amount to barely a whimper, and the cost has been paid overwhelmingly by Americans. TPP on the other hand would have actually been effective by giving American companies 4-5 alternative countries they could relocate their operations too, with the added incentive that the TPP requirements would have protected their IP from being stolen like it is in China. And it would have cost the US nothing, because the relocated businesses were not in the US anyways, but were in China. In fact, the added diversity of countries to manufacture would have probably made it even more of a win for the US. The idea that Trump has been anything but a massive gift for China is ridiculous. There’s a reason China has ramped up its aggressiveness worldwide towards the end of the Trump admin (although they are probably clearly overreaching, but they realize this might be their last chance to make hay without the US doing anything).
- tanilama 6y ago
  Seconded Trump did go all out with his Trump card, trade and tariff. But he can do so much more without playing this card to this extent. Fear is what motivates people, the ideal that China would subject to all around 25% tariffs would put Xi on the edge. But Trump actually just went and realized the consequences because he thought he could. Now the fear factor is gone. Surprisingly little had accomplished. Decoupling is sealed. CCP headliners had proved their view of US is always right and controls the narrative. And the means to further escalation on the table is war. Pretty unwitty and wasteful if you ask me.

crunchyfrog 6y ago

Trump's trade war was an attempt to pressure China to reduce the trade deficit and help him in the 2020 election. It had absolutely nothing to do with human rights. If anything, Trump admires dictators who violate the human rights of their citizens. There absolutely nothing logical about supporting a policy that superficially looks like a policy you support but has entirely different goals.

systemvoltage 6y ago
Who's talking about human rights? I was talking about economics of trade, which is what this article is about. > Trump's trade war was an attempt to pressure China to reduce the trade deficit and help him in the 2020 election. Yes, I support this view, although I don't support his re-election. > If anything, Trump admires dictators who violate the human rights of their citizens. Agreed, this was absolutely reprehensible and don't forget Russia. I honestly have no energy to debate anymore. And this is not something I want to get into right now, the point was about being tolerant to other's views and try to understand why they think that way.

refurb 6y ago

Indeed. The tactics and intolerance for different opinions is pretty similar on both ends of the political spectrum. I think the US would make a huge leap forward if different political opinions we're viewed with "I disagree with you" versus "your beliefs mean youre a bad person".

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago

It was inconceivable to me even one year ago that American citizens could be beaten in public for supporting the president. This is not rational in any explanation.

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
Downvoters: describe your rational explanation for beating an American citizen in public because they support the president.
- saltedonion 6y ago
  I will explain. Hackernews is a leftist ideological echo chamber. If you scroll through this thread you’ll notice downvoted posts don’t even get a good reply as to why they’re wrong. The down-voters are hurt and clueless.
- lifeformed 6y ago
  It's a strawman. There isn't some rash of unprovoked public beatings of people because they happen to be Trump supporters.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
    Watch the video. The first assault is mild. The student punched in the face could have knocked teeth out: https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/rising-political-tension https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/rising-political-tension Punched in the face for wearing a hat in Russian. The assailant couldn't read it, but attacked once the wearer told him the translation: https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-beaten-up-in-california-restaurant-over-his-russian-maga-hat-cops https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-beaten-up-in-california-re... And here is seven pages of a Political Violence Report, official congressional record: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20190409/109266/HHRG-116-JU00-20190409-SD008.pdf https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20190409/109266/HHRG... Here are three more, including an 81 year-old man: https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/28/maga-hat-wearing-victims-are-still-victims/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/28/maga-hat-wearing-vic... This was a serious beating, an art gallery owner: https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-city-gallery-owner-attacked-wearing-make-america/story?id=64731770 https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-city-gallery-owner-attacked-w... Citing the Berkeley assault, this guy wrote and app to help conservatives find safe places to dine out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/11/need-safe-place-wear-your-maga-hat-new-app-will-help-conservatives-find-one/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/11/need-safe... This is attempted murder: https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-arrested-allegedly-driving-van-gop-registration-tent/story?id=68859140 https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-arrested-allegedly-driving-van...

jkinudsjknds 6y ago

Conservatism is a poor descriptor for the driving ideology of the American right these days. Progressiveism is sometimes on the radar of the mainstream left but generally not. The notion of centrism is pretty meaningless when the endpoints are shifting constantly. "Centrism" in the United States often means conservative views, but not Trump right wing crazy- but being conservative means trending towards maintaining existing power structures which is incompatible with those who want progressive change. The terms are all ultimately meaningless meat shields for empty rhetoric.

rdlecler1 6y ago

As a centrist saying. Irving particularly offensive your post was downvoted. I feel my days on HN are numbered. One used to be able to have an intellectually honest discussion. Now step out of line and it’s downvotes. This kind of monoculture isn’t healthy.

saltedonion 6y ago
Nope. Hackernews is an leftist ideological echo chamber and I love it.
- rdlecler1 6y ago
  I feel bad for anyone who can’t handle diversity of opinion and the destruction it always causes.
mythrwy 6y ago
Just say your thing and make your reasoned points and who cares about downvotes.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
  Downvotes are a flag for disagreement. I am interested in the reasoned points of those who disagree with me. Since I was downvoted and no comment was left, I requested that those who downvoted come forth with their reasoned points. One or both of us have an opportunity to learn something when that happens.

addicted 6y ago

Nothing Trump has done has come close to the massive gift Trump gave China by killing the TPP. This idea that Trump is somehow harder on China is laughable. Trump has been screaming China loudly, but his actions amount to barely a whimper, and the cost has been paid overwhelmingly by Americans. TPP on the other hand would have actually been effective by giving American companies 4-5 alternative countries they could relocate their operations too, with the added incentive that the TPP requirements would have protected their IP from being stolen like it is in China. And it would have cost the US nothing, because the relocated businesses were not in the US anyways, but were in China. In fact, the added diversity of countries to manufacture would have probably made it even more of a win for the US. The idea that Trump has been anything but a massive gift for China is ridiculous. There’s a reason China has ramped up its aggressiveness worldwide towards the end of the Trump admin (although they are probably clearly overreaching, but they realize this might be their last chance to make hay without the US doing anything).

tanilama 6y ago
Seconded Trump did go all out with his Trump card, trade and tariff. But he can do so much more without playing this card to this extent. Fear is what motivates people, the ideal that China would subject to all around 25% tariffs would put Xi on the edge. But Trump actually just went and realized the consequences because he thought he could. Now the fear factor is gone. Surprisingly little had accomplished. Decoupling is sealed. CCP headliners had proved their view of US is always right and controls the narrative. And the means to further escalation on the table is war. Pretty unwitty and wasteful if you ask me.