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Honestly it's unlikely. At most they will delay China, maybe make it pretend for a bit it changed. China is clearly pursing US Tech independence since a long t

Honestly it's unlikely. At most they will delay China, maybe make it pretend for a bit it changed. China is clearly pursing US Tech independence since a long time. They are not there yet, but they constantly get closer. If Tech companies in US/EU would have been more careful with cooperation and IT-espionage maybe then it would be true. But by now it's pretty much to late. They already have a solid enough foundation to become US Tech independent. The question is just how long it will take. And how it currently looks not too long.

echelon 6y ago
Do you want to live in a world where the CCP is the dominant superpower? They have a perfect Orwellian state, destroy ethnic minorities, purge ideas that don't fit the narrative, steal land and resources, harvest organs from prisoners, ... I think we should do anything under our power to prevent that fate. Bolster every other nation in the region, give Japan a powerful navy, replace their one belt with our own. Build out Vietnam's and India's industrial capability, and get started on Africa. Unite with all other Democratic nations in a trade agreement that shuns the China/Russia sphere. Maybe we can make their system rupture from the inside.
- alfiedotwtf 6y ago
  > They have a perfect Orwellian state Snowden > destroy ethnic minorities Native Americans > purge ideas that don't fit the narrative “Fake news” > steal land and resources Native Americans > harvest organs from prisoners Nothing yet, but who knows under Trump
  - echelon 6y ago
    The ideals of equality and justice in America are sacred, but we have to work hard to attain and protect them. It's a struggle, and not everyone plays fair. People are greedy by default. We are barely evolved animals that only happened to master the atom. Despite the difficulty of our task, we know and are constantly reminded of the degree of perfect that we're aiming for. The voices of protest you see are a manifestation of that. It's beautiful and is one of our best qualities. The CCP has no such agenda. They want to destroy us and our way of life. They're the biggest threat to freedom and a future of liberty and equality in the world. They want to export their model to other states. Please change your perspective. We need champions of democracy. I'm not asking you to stop criticizing America - that's something required of us. I'm asking you to fight for a world where all people are free and have a voice.
- throwaway554344 6y ago
  When the US finally became a superpower, there were still Jim Crow laws and minorities were second class citizens that could be killed for looking at someone the wrong way. It took decades for the US to change and for Civil Rights to truly take hold. It’s entirely possible the China we know today will be completely different once it’s a superpower.
  - dathinab 6y ago
    Yes, China isn't all bad. Honestly while many of the methods of the CCP are condemnable or outright evil the goals they purse with it are often not. It's just that they have lost their humanity to some degree in a combination of bureaucracy, capitalism and nationalism. But even if it changes after becoming a superpower it will take time and drastic events. Most likely a insane number of lives would be lost (or "destroyed") before it. And the west pay a high price. Ironically we could say they will pay a high price for not keeping to their own moral standards... Also one problem is that with tech advancements traditionally observed dynamics about bad rulers being dethroned might not longer work.
  - thr3waw2ay0987 6y ago
    Let’s be real, when has an authoritarian government ever let its own people drive social changes? That never happens because such reforms would be an existential threat to that very form of government. US institutions at least aspire to enable its society to affect social change. The only way china will change is if the government can no longer uphold the social contract (exchange of social liberties for quality of life increases) and its people forcibly change management.
  - vmception 6y ago
    > It’s entirely possible the China we know today will be completely different once it’s a superpower. Yes, because everything that undermines its national unity will have been obliterated! In honor of Independence Day, here is some foreshadowing from the US Declaration of Independence and precursor to global hegemony after domestic stability following genocide He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. There is no history supporting a tendency for multicultural superpower status. There is one amorphous culture that rules with an iron fist until the other cultures conform to it or stop existing. We can try to make other countries act more enlightened in the 21st century, but it is only hypocritical and fails to consider the tolerances those places have maintained thus far.
- dathinab 6y ago
  > Do you want to live in a world where the CCP is the dominant superpower? No! But if we belive that US companies can effectively change China and try to use that we are already on the losing end.
- wonnage 6y ago
  Makes me think of a current superpower which committed multiple genocides against a native population, enslaved and represses to this day ethnic minorities, is in perpetual undeclared war with oil-producing countries, purposefully infected its own free citizens with syphillis and observed them over the course of 40 years....
remarkEon 6y ago
>They already have a solid enough foundation to become US Tech independent. Highly skeptical of this. All of the manufacturing infrastructure that actually makes the chips in these fabs everyone is so excited about is still made ... in the United States and Germany. China can't do this today, but they may be able to do it in the future. The opportunity for the West to cut them off is closing very fast, however. Cut them off now, before it's too late.
- justicezyx 6y ago
  I see no reason a country with 1.4 billion people won't catch up another one with significantly smaller population. Edit: record reference to racial difference
  - remarkEon 6y ago
    I'm not sure what my comment has to do with race. I'm talking about existing technology, and who has it.
justicezyx 6y ago
Note that China had been under embargo since 1989 from high technology products. There simply was no option other than independence. Gorge Kennan, the author of the X article incept the containment strategy, often contended: there needs to be options for USSR (often in criticizing US foreign policy that is highly ideology charged and leave minimal policy maneuver for USSR). Of course, it was totally reasonable to enforce embargo after 1989. That was an attempt to force spontaneous changes in the Chinese society, after an obviously unacceptable behavior from the government. However, no one studied the Chinese people. They are more willing to correct the wrongs made to them in the past, than bend to external pressure. The pressure, which has been on this ancient nation since 1840, never managed to break the nation. And this time the result won't be different either.
pupdogg 6y ago
As much as I want to believe your reasoning, I just can’t fathom how Chinese copycats could actually yield next generation tech...have you had a chance to search “Chinese structure collapses” on YouTube? I believe there are over a hundred videos showcasing their ingenuity.
- justicezyx 6y ago
  Yes copycat cannot innovate. But Eric Schmidt believe China are no longer copying: """ "I have carried the prejudices about China in my years working with them," he said. "That they're very good at copying things, that they're very good at organising things, that they throw large numbers of people at it. But they're not going to do anything new. They're very, very good at stealing, if you will, our stuff. Those prejudices need to be thrown out. "The Chinese are just as good, and maybe better, in key areas of research and innovation as the West. "They're putting more money into it. They are putting it in a different way, it is state-directed in a way that is different from the West. We need to get our act together to compete." """
- Aperocky 6y ago
  So if you do believe that out of a billion people and all they can do is copy, I don't know if that is prejudice or racism. Also, have you had a chance to search 'Chinese structure built' on youtube? You won't find anything because it's not newsworthy. Every now and then something gets stolen and people are upset. When Chinese companies actually invents something you'd never hear about it - or you're quick to jump on the sanction bandwagon, e.g. tiktok, huawei.
- tanilama 6y ago
  The Chinese can't innovate or create is really just a relic of 90's racism+orientalism. Seriously, only if you believe somehow the Chinese people have different brain structure, there is absolutely no reason why they can't do what West can do. Yes Chinese wasn't doing super innovative stuff back like 10 years ago. Reason? Because they don't have to. There is easier money to make at a lower segment of the market that fits them better. The China back then is under developed, spending in R&D isn't something that would benefit them than simply importing last-gen Western technology. Now they have educated themselves and clambbed up the value chain, that is when the innovations become profitable to them. The West still enjoys some advantage, in certain key areas, but it is diminishing, and diminishing fast.

echelon 6y ago

Do you want to live in a world where the CCP is the dominant superpower? They have a perfect Orwellian state, destroy ethnic minorities, purge ideas that don't fit the narrative, steal land and resources, harvest organs from prisoners, ... I think we should do anything under our power to prevent that fate. Bolster every other nation in the region, give Japan a powerful navy, replace their one belt with our own. Build out Vietnam's and India's industrial capability, and get started on Africa. Unite with all other Democratic nations in a trade agreement that shuns the China/Russia sphere. Maybe we can make their system rupture from the inside.

alfiedotwtf 6y ago
> They have a perfect Orwellian state Snowden > destroy ethnic minorities Native Americans > purge ideas that don't fit the narrative “Fake news” > steal land and resources Native Americans > harvest organs from prisoners Nothing yet, but who knows under Trump
- echelon 6y ago
  The ideals of equality and justice in America are sacred, but we have to work hard to attain and protect them. It's a struggle, and not everyone plays fair. People are greedy by default. We are barely evolved animals that only happened to master the atom. Despite the difficulty of our task, we know and are constantly reminded of the degree of perfect that we're aiming for. The voices of protest you see are a manifestation of that. It's beautiful and is one of our best qualities. The CCP has no such agenda. They want to destroy us and our way of life. They're the biggest threat to freedom and a future of liberty and equality in the world. They want to export their model to other states. Please change your perspective. We need champions of democracy. I'm not asking you to stop criticizing America - that's something required of us. I'm asking you to fight for a world where all people are free and have a voice.
throwaway554344 6y ago
When the US finally became a superpower, there were still Jim Crow laws and minorities were second class citizens that could be killed for looking at someone the wrong way. It took decades for the US to change and for Civil Rights to truly take hold. It’s entirely possible the China we know today will be completely different once it’s a superpower.
- dathinab 6y ago
  Yes, China isn't all bad. Honestly while many of the methods of the CCP are condemnable or outright evil the goals they purse with it are often not. It's just that they have lost their humanity to some degree in a combination of bureaucracy, capitalism and nationalism. But even if it changes after becoming a superpower it will take time and drastic events. Most likely a insane number of lives would be lost (or "destroyed") before it. And the west pay a high price. Ironically we could say they will pay a high price for not keeping to their own moral standards... Also one problem is that with tech advancements traditionally observed dynamics about bad rulers being dethroned might not longer work.
- thr3waw2ay0987 6y ago
  Let’s be real, when has an authoritarian government ever let its own people drive social changes? That never happens because such reforms would be an existential threat to that very form of government. US institutions at least aspire to enable its society to affect social change. The only way china will change is if the government can no longer uphold the social contract (exchange of social liberties for quality of life increases) and its people forcibly change management.
- vmception 6y ago
  > It’s entirely possible the China we know today will be completely different once it’s a superpower. Yes, because everything that undermines its national unity will have been obliterated! In honor of Independence Day, here is some foreshadowing from the US Declaration of Independence and precursor to global hegemony after domestic stability following genocide He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. There is no history supporting a tendency for multicultural superpower status. There is one amorphous culture that rules with an iron fist until the other cultures conform to it or stop existing. We can try to make other countries act more enlightened in the 21st century, but it is only hypocritical and fails to consider the tolerances those places have maintained thus far.
dathinab 6y ago
> Do you want to live in a world where the CCP is the dominant superpower? No! But if we belive that US companies can effectively change China and try to use that we are already on the losing end.
wonnage 6y ago
Makes me think of a current superpower which committed multiple genocides against a native population, enslaved and represses to this day ethnic minorities, is in perpetual undeclared war with oil-producing countries, purposefully infected its own free citizens with syphillis and observed them over the course of 40 years....

remarkEon 6y ago

>They already have a solid enough foundation to become US Tech independent. Highly skeptical of this. All of the manufacturing infrastructure that actually makes the chips in these fabs everyone is so excited about is still made ... in the United States and Germany. China can't do this today, but they may be able to do it in the future. The opportunity for the West to cut them off is closing very fast, however. Cut them off now, before it's too late.

justicezyx 6y ago
I see no reason a country with 1.4 billion people won't catch up another one with significantly smaller population. Edit: record reference to racial difference
- remarkEon 6y ago
  I'm not sure what my comment has to do with race. I'm talking about existing technology, and who has it.

justicezyx 6y ago

Note that China had been under embargo since 1989 from high technology products. There simply was no option other than independence. Gorge Kennan, the author of the X article incept the containment strategy, often contended: there needs to be options for USSR (often in criticizing US foreign policy that is highly ideology charged and leave minimal policy maneuver for USSR). Of course, it was totally reasonable to enforce embargo after 1989. That was an attempt to force spontaneous changes in the Chinese society, after an obviously unacceptable behavior from the government. However, no one studied the Chinese people. They are more willing to correct the wrongs made to them in the past, than bend to external pressure. The pressure, which has been on this ancient nation since 1840, never managed to break the nation. And this time the result won't be different either.

pupdogg 6y ago

As much as I want to believe your reasoning, I just can’t fathom how Chinese copycats could actually yield next generation tech...have you had a chance to search “Chinese structure collapses” on YouTube? I believe there are over a hundred videos showcasing their ingenuity.

justicezyx 6y ago
Yes copycat cannot innovate. But Eric Schmidt believe China are no longer copying: """ "I have carried the prejudices about China in my years working with them," he said. "That they're very good at copying things, that they're very good at organising things, that they throw large numbers of people at it. But they're not going to do anything new. They're very, very good at stealing, if you will, our stuff. Those prejudices need to be thrown out. "The Chinese are just as good, and maybe better, in key areas of research and innovation as the West. "They're putting more money into it. They are putting it in a different way, it is state-directed in a way that is different from the West. We need to get our act together to compete." """
Aperocky 6y ago
So if you do believe that out of a billion people and all they can do is copy, I don't know if that is prejudice or racism. Also, have you had a chance to search 'Chinese structure built' on youtube? You won't find anything because it's not newsworthy. Every now and then something gets stolen and people are upset. When Chinese companies actually invents something you'd never hear about it - or you're quick to jump on the sanction bandwagon, e.g. tiktok, huawei.
tanilama 6y ago
The Chinese can't innovate or create is really just a relic of 90's racism+orientalism. Seriously, only if you believe somehow the Chinese people have different brain structure, there is absolutely no reason why they can't do what West can do. Yes Chinese wasn't doing super innovative stuff back like 10 years ago. Reason? Because they don't have to. There is easier money to make at a lower segment of the market that fits them better. The China back then is under developed, spending in R&D isn't something that would benefit them than simply importing last-gen Western technology. Now they have educated themselves and clambbed up the value chain, that is when the innovations become profitable to them. The West still enjoys some advantage, in certain key areas, but it is diminishing, and diminishing fast.