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I've been thinking about this exact issue with respect to my accomplishments. How much benefit have I drawn from looking like a programmer? I'm an Asian America

I've been thinking about this exact issue with respect to my accomplishments. How much benefit have I drawn from looking like a programmer? I'm an Asian American male with glasses. I fit the part. Looking back, people gave me respect and their ear far before I deserved it. Would I have gotten the same level of encouragement if I were Black? Would I have gotten the same level of respect if I were a woman? Probably not. Any social engineer can tell you that appearances are half the battle. A white male in a hardhat with a clipboard could get into most construction sites. A white male in a suit could probably get into most office buildings. There's some rather vehement responses in this thread. I wonder how many people are threatened by the idea that their accomplishments are partially due to them "looking the part" and not just their work and skill.

ColanR 6y ago
> Any social engineer From my readings of pentesters doing social engineering, female pentesters have the vast advantage when trying to gain building access.
aliante 6y ago
> A white male in a suit could probably get into most office buildings. A woman is going to have a far easier time getting into an office building.
- _hardwaregeek 6y ago
  I appreciate the correction, but frankly this isn't what I hoped people would take away from my comment. My point was that race/gender/appearance plays a large role in gaining access to normally stratified resources
chrisco255 6y ago
Dressing for success is not exactly some secret of influence. A black guy in a suit in 2020 is going to be able to get into any office building as well. A black guy with a hard hat is not exactly unheard of on construction sites. It's quite common.
M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago
aren’t Asian-Americans dominant in every high-paying profession? doctor, engineer, consultant, banker, etc. I just haven’t seen very many in industries such as education or government
usaar333 6y ago
> How much benefit have I drawn from looking like a programmer On the other hand, our profession does have the benefit of being able to be done with zero knowledge of appearance. In fact, I credit that fact to enabling smart teenagers to make key contributions to open source they otherwise would be excluded from due to assumptions coming from age.
- aliante 6y ago
  On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_...
CerealFounder 6y ago
Im a white man who looks like a wrestler, while also the CEO and founder of a pair of very well known companies and I without fail will get "bro" talked to upon first meeting by other guys in all contexts.
BoiledCabbage 6y ago
It's a great point you raise, and something that we all should think about. > There's some rather vehement responses in this thread. I wonder how many people are threatened by the idea that their accomplishments are partially due to them "looking the part" and not just their work and skill. Additionally I think a lot of people understand the concept of probability and likelihoods, but when it comes to this topic people get very uncomfortable thinking that where they are today is partially due to luck but as well due to structural factors that benefited them unrelated to any active actions they took. And usually the emotional response is either doubling down on the parts they did control (completely ignoring the fact that plenty of other people put in more effort or did better at those same parts and didn't get as far as they did), or claiming that yes the problem does exist but "not in my area, because no-one actively does anything bad like that", or the other "my intuition says it's a minor issue or an already resolved issue therefore that's true" - which goes against the research that says - no it is a problem.

ColanR 6y ago

> Any social engineer From my readings of pentesters doing social engineering, female pentesters have the vast advantage when trying to gain building access.

aliante 6y ago

> A white male in a suit could probably get into most office buildings. A woman is going to have a far easier time getting into an office building.

_hardwaregeek 6y ago
I appreciate the correction, but frankly this isn't what I hoped people would take away from my comment. My point was that race/gender/appearance plays a large role in gaining access to normally stratified resources

chrisco255 6y ago

Dressing for success is not exactly some secret of influence. A black guy in a suit in 2020 is going to be able to get into any office building as well. A black guy with a hard hat is not exactly unheard of on construction sites. It's quite common.

M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago

aren’t Asian-Americans dominant in every high-paying profession? doctor, engineer, consultant, banker, etc. I just haven’t seen very many in industries such as education or government

usaar333 6y ago

> How much benefit have I drawn from looking like a programmer On the other hand, our profession does have the benefit of being able to be done with zero knowledge of appearance. In fact, I credit that fact to enabling smart teenagers to make key contributions to open source they otherwise would be excluded from due to assumptions coming from age.

aliante 6y ago
On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_...

CerealFounder 6y ago

Im a white man who looks like a wrestler, while also the CEO and founder of a pair of very well known companies and I without fail will get "bro" talked to upon first meeting by other guys in all contexts.

BoiledCabbage 6y ago

It's a great point you raise, and something that we all should think about. > There's some rather vehement responses in this thread. I wonder how many people are threatened by the idea that their accomplishments are partially due to them "looking the part" and not just their work and skill. Additionally I think a lot of people understand the concept of probability and likelihoods, but when it comes to this topic people get very uncomfortable thinking that where they are today is partially due to luck but as well due to structural factors that benefited them unrelated to any active actions they took. And usually the emotional response is either doubling down on the parts they did control (completely ignoring the fact that plenty of other people put in more effort or did better at those same parts and didn't get as far as they did), or claiming that yes the problem does exist but "not in my area, because no-one actively does anything bad like that", or the other "my intuition says it's a minor issue or an already resolved issue therefore that's true" - which goes against the research that says - no it is a problem.