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> This article made me realize, part of the quality of the conversation on HN comes from the ability to downvote. It also comes from persistent, patient modera

by miles 6y ago

> This article made me realize, part of the quality of the conversation on HN comes from the ability to downvote. It also comes from persistent, patient moderation. Here's one example from Dan[1] that recently opened my eyes to just how valuable it can be: "Please don't post snarky dismissals here. Maybe you don't owe Quora better, but you owe this community better if you're posting to it." His comment proactively dissuaded me from joining in the fray and posting something that wouldn't provide some measure of value for the HN community. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23646883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23646883

Taek 6y ago
Most high quality communities have active moderation. And many times, the vast majority of moderated activity is as simple as the mod privately telling a member to chill out or adjust their attitude. Don't need bans or downvotes even, most people will happily comply with a mod request simply because the request was made.
- CodeWriter23 6y ago
  * and permitting the civil discussion of differing views.
ipnon 6y ago
This is a striking point. In most "real life" communities, there will be someone who gets the final word on whether something said is acceptable. Think mom or dad at the dinner table, the CEO at a private company, or the principal at a high school. They are effectively the moderators of the public forum they physically inhabit. We do, however, structure this moderation as a hierarchy and it self organizes. The mom has the final say on acceptability, but in her absence, the older sister takes this role. We rarely see this structure in online communities. Should downvotes be weighted by the karma of the voter?
- airstrike 6y ago
  > Should downvotes be weighted by the karma of the voter? While a good idea in theory, I'd hate for people to have yet another incentive to want "good karma". Would prefer tiered levels of moderation where long standing community members get promoted to 1st-level moderators. Their actions get moderated by the next action, etc. etc. I remember being an @op at an IRC trivia channel when I was ~13 years old or so, back when we had dial-up. I played in it daily, for a lot of time during weekends, was nice to everyone, gave tips to newbies, hung around. Was asked to join the team, as a "level 5" op. Loved the "behind the scenes" so much, the op community, fell in platonic love with a chick 14 years older than me (actually met her IRL 6 hours away by car about a year later, so cringe!), kicked trolls and spammers... then later as I learned mIRC scripting helped write a new trivia script, a bunch of tools, etc. Ended up being "promoted" to level 10, started training new operators, then 20, started making longer plans for the channel, then 50, 100, then "founder" status. All of a sudden I was calling shots at 15 years of age, with ~500-1000 concurrent users in the channel during peak activity. That experience of ensuring people were having fun, cultivating a community of friends among users and operators, teaching new people how to be moderators, etc. was incredibly rewarding and left such a huge imprint in my life. There were no points to be earned, no karma to show anyone... You wouldn't even know the channel unless you were on BrasNet (unlikely!) but I was eager to contribute everyday just because there was a real community behind it. That sort of community is all but gone from the internet with its fake internet points You can say the OP status was a points system of sorts, but not really... Users didn't know my level, and you couldn't click on my username to see how "big" I was. Most importantly, one couldn't click on one's own nickname and get a dopamine hit from seeing a number next to it like one can when their post makes the front page of HN, reddit or any other platform, or when they get 100 likes on FB an IG
- pjc50 6y ago
  > Should downvotes be weighted by the karma of the voter? As a person with 60k karma I would find it enjoyable to downvote comments to the center of the earth, but I don't think everyone would agree.
karl11 6y ago
I think this is right, but would add that it is also key that the vast majority of here have a lot of trust in YC + moderators and nearly universally view them as good faith actors. This wouldn’t work on CNN.com.

by miles 6y ago

Taek 6y ago

Most high quality communities have active moderation. And many times, the vast majority of moderated activity is as simple as the mod privately telling a member to chill out or adjust their attitude. Don't need bans or downvotes even, most people will happily comply with a mod request simply because the request was made.

CodeWriter23 6y ago
* and permitting the civil discussion of differing views.

ipnon 6y ago

This is a striking point. In most "real life" communities, there will be someone who gets the final word on whether something said is acceptable. Think mom or dad at the dinner table, the CEO at a private company, or the principal at a high school. They are effectively the moderators of the public forum they physically inhabit. We do, however, structure this moderation as a hierarchy and it self organizes. The mom has the final say on acceptability, but in her absence, the older sister takes this role. We rarely see this structure in online communities. Should downvotes be weighted by the karma of the voter?

airstrike 6y ago
> Should downvotes be weighted by the karma of the voter? While a good idea in theory, I'd hate for people to have yet another incentive to want "good karma". Would prefer tiered levels of moderation where long standing community members get promoted to 1st-level moderators. Their actions get moderated by the next action, etc. etc. I remember being an @op at an IRC trivia channel when I was ~13 years old or so, back when we had dial-up. I played in it daily, for a lot of time during weekends, was nice to everyone, gave tips to newbies, hung around. Was asked to join the team, as a "level 5" op. Loved the "behind the scenes" so much, the op community, fell in platonic love with a chick 14 years older than me (actually met her IRL 6 hours away by car about a year later, so cringe!), kicked trolls and spammers... then later as I learned mIRC scripting helped write a new trivia script, a bunch of tools, etc. Ended up being "promoted" to level 10, started training new operators, then 20, started making longer plans for the channel, then 50, 100, then "founder" status. All of a sudden I was calling shots at 15 years of age, with ~500-1000 concurrent users in the channel during peak activity. That experience of ensuring people were having fun, cultivating a community of friends among users and operators, teaching new people how to be moderators, etc. was incredibly rewarding and left such a huge imprint in my life. There were no points to be earned, no karma to show anyone... You wouldn't even know the channel unless you were on BrasNet (unlikely!) but I was eager to contribute everyday just because there was a real community behind it. That sort of community is all but gone from the internet with its fake internet points You can say the OP status was a points system of sorts, but not really... Users didn't know my level, and you couldn't click on my username to see how "big" I was. Most importantly, one couldn't click on one's own nickname and get a dopamine hit from seeing a number next to it like one can when their post makes the front page of HN, reddit or any other platform, or when they get 100 likes on FB an IG
pjc50 6y ago
> Should downvotes be weighted by the karma of the voter? As a person with 60k karma I would find it enjoyable to downvote comments to the center of the earth, but I don't think everyone would agree.

karl11 6y ago

I think this is right, but would add that it is also key that the vast majority of here have a lot of trust in YC + moderators and nearly universally view them as good faith actors. This wouldn’t work on CNN.com.