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Political agenda, or something even more sinister, like an opportunistic foreign adversary? It seems like a lot of the FUD around Covid-19 is deliberately being

Political agenda, or something even more sinister, like an opportunistic foreign adversary? It seems like a lot of the FUD around Covid-19 is deliberately being spread to maximize casualties. The article points out that contrarians, often conservative, promoted mask wearing until the US government reversed its position and said that masks do work. Suddenly, anti-lockdown protests, conspiracy theories and mask objecting started happening, and mask wearing became politically polarizing. It would be interesting to see where these people get their information from...one suspects that the answer will be skewed heavily toward social media.

standardUser 6y ago
"Political agenda, or something even more sinister..." I think the simplest explanation is that the conservative right now views literally every issue as a them-versus-us issue, and as soon as it was clear that "they" thought we should wear masks, a very predictable conservative backlash occurred. I'm not sure if the president helped launch this particular battle in the "culture war" or was just a cheerleader as usual.
- thoraway3030 6y ago
  I'm not sure if the president helped launch this particular battle in the "culture war" or was just a cheerleader as usual The US government reversed itself on masks and recommended them before the rest of the English-speaking world. The WHO only endorsed masks a few weeks ago. I don't like Trump, but these are facts. It seems to have been politicized after Mike Pence visited the Mayo Clinic, and didn't wear a mask, and then Trump was then pushed on the issue, and reacted characteristically. If Pence had set a good example and worn a mask, or of there hadn't been a huge uproar about him not wearing a mask, would the issue have turned into a front in the culture war?
  - newacct583 6y ago
    > The WHO only endorsed masks a few weeks ago. I don't like Trump, but these are facts. That's not facts, that's spin. From your phrasing, it sounds like you're saying that prior to a "few weeks ago" that the WHO policy was somehow anti-mask. It wasn't, even in January. Their policy was always that PPE should be reserved for health care workers due to scarcity, and in a few (A FEW) instances their wording of that recommendation was poor and might plausibly imply that masks don't work. No expert ever interpreted the WHO policy the way you people insist on doing. And at this point this insistence is just pathological.
    - thoraway3030 6y ago
      and in a few (A FEW) instances their wording of that recommendation was poor and might plausibly imply that masks don't work. Until Zeynep Tufekci's New York Times oped, the consensus was indeed that "masks don't work" for Covid. I documented numerous instances on social media of healthcare professionals insulting and belittling those who wore masks based on what you describe as "poor wording". Here is a Time article from 4 March that sums up the expert consensus on masks at that point (in fact it has direct quotes from experts, including an infectious diseases professor, a leading psychologist, and the Surgeon General): that masking was "superstitious", didn't work and claiming that wearing a a mask equated to knocking on wood, or not walking under a ladder. https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/ https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/
  - standardUser 6y ago
    Trump has consistently made a point to not wear a mask, even when the places he was visiting specifically asked him to. Trump has also mentioned several times that he thinks masks should be optional. He has unequivocally and undeniable undermined harmed efforts to promote make mask wearing, and continues to do so.
- XorNot 6y ago
  The US President absolutely launched this when he decided to make the existence - let's be clear, not the severity or the appropriate level of response, but initially it was the existence of a deadly virus - a political issue, and declared it was a hoax while standing in front of the White House.
  - jki275 6y ago
    Can you cite the exact quote where he said that?
    - XorNot 6y ago
      https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trump-says-the-coronavirus-is-the-democrats-new-hoax.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trump-says-the-coronavirus-i... Do your own Googling next time.
      - jki275 6y ago
        That story doesn't even back up your claim. My question was rhetorical. I know it's not true. I hoped you would look it up and realize your comment was inaccurate.
- duckMuppet 6y ago
  You're obviously ok with being lied to. A lot of folks aren't. Irrespective of how you may want too brand certain groups of individuals, it isn't only conservatives or Trump supporters who are suspect about the mask and motivations. In fact You're hero Fauci at one point made multiple statements telling the people wearing masks was ineffective and essentially silly. Again, You're fine being lied to because it's what you want to believe. The truth of it is anyone even remotely skeptical might have their spidey senses tingling. Especially given that more recent data from the CDC suggests Covid isn't even in epidemic level territory, and hasn't been since mid June.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Over 120 000 Americans have died from COVID in the last few months, that's more than died during the Korean and Vietman wars put together - this is a pandemic. To quell your conspiratorial concerns about 'masks' you need only visit most of the rest of the world and find out, particularly in close-quarters E. Asian countries, they've been doing it for some time. Nobody is suggesting they are perfect, the messaging has been mixed, and we're not exactly sure of their efficiency, all of those things are allowed when supporting a 'pro mask' policy. America has been losing the battle against COVID while E. Asian countries have been doing very well, and most of the rest of the world is doing 'OK' - popular US debate is the most ridiculous, least credible place for facts. The CDC has some integrity, but this is a global phenom and literally everywhere else with integrity is taking this seriously. People are not bing 'lied to' about masks, they're getting mixed messages because the issue is inherently grey.
    - duckMuppet 6y ago
      Now do cancer.. Now do influenza. Now do suicide.. Here's one for you, take out deaths over 60 and then look at the data. Better yet.. If you statistically don't want to die, don't be over 70 in a nursing home in a state with a governor who's a Democrat. It's better than a coin flip if you're in that unfortunate category.. odds are high you're toast. I'll not blow your mind by discussing serology studies, both here and abroad. And since you enjoy using other countries datas, you should actually look into it.. Multiple countries have already noted that the lockdown are inherently unhelpful. Several countries including Italy, have both serology and fecal matter studies which show the virus is quite prevalent and is far less lethal than was believed, Especially for those younger than 50 with no co-morbidity. They also found that the virus was in fecal matter in early fall 2019, and similar findings have been found in Pennsylvania. We were likely well into the virus in January, long before masks and lockdown became a thing. It's ironic that the elderly and imfirmed are the ones actually at the greatest risk, yet our government solution is to lock down the healthy and young, while totally giving a death sentence to those most vulnerable. The death count by-day and by-week has been making record setting lows for the past few weeks now, the best since early in the year. Again, the data gives no fucks about what you want to believe. And no, according to CDC numbers, this hasn't been been even at epidemic levels since early June. And all those countries you prize so much, all of them are playing sports, with people in the stadiums, even in the UK the PM is under active investigation as to why they stayed locked down for so long when the data doesn't dictate what they were doing was correct.. I'm not trying to smash your beliefs because it's pretty clear you're a true believer and the actual science or data won't persuade you anyway.. But the idea that you would analogize this to something such as the Vietnam war leads me to believe you should've took less classes on basket weaving, gender studies, or most likely psychology, and more in maths.
- rl3 6y ago
  Foreign information warfare units absolutely want to be stoking that fire to the fullest extent possible. Their election interference was so wildly successful that they'd have no reason not be trying to inflict further damage on the US now.
- jariel 6y ago
  The 'liberal left' equally views every issue as 'us vs them'. It's very apparent by watching the daily headlines. They were against mask-wearers as 'hoarders' at the start, then pro-mask, then stopped talking about it during BLM protest and subsequent riots, and are now back at it. All of it shameful, including the fuzzy messaging from WHO, CDC, White House etc..
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    I went to a BLM protest about a week ago. Universal mask wearing there, and people were doing their best to distance as well. It's not that we "stopped talking about it"; it's that we didn't need to, because the rules were already being followed in that context.
    - jariel 6y ago
      First - 'large gatherings' are the #1 concern for social spread. Most protests were exactly that. Second - your anecdote is not useful at all given that there are tons of examples of people not practicing social distancing at protests, including most of what was shown on television. "it's that we didn't need to, because the rules were already being followed in that context." If you Google 'BLM Protest' for Google images, you get this [1] You will see in those images masses and masses of people obviously not practicing social distancing. People jammed together in the order of many thousands. And this was clear from anyone who watched any of the coverage. So why would you try to deny it? Third - the fact that CNN decided to pause their constant 'social distancing' messaging, when it was obviously clear that people were not following the rules, probably in light of the nature of the social cause - is the issue at hand. Literally the week before the protests, they were screaming at beach goers - clearly at more 'distance' than any of the protests, for failing to enact proper social distancing. If you Google 'Covid Beach Goers' [2], which by the way includes the term 'Covid' thereby implying some concern, you will see, ironically, what looks like reasonable distancing, although not that different from normal beach behaviour. So there you can see very clear evidence - massive, jam-packed protests, contrasted with fairly open and 'distanced' beach goers, with CNN lambasting one group but not the other. It's distressing how ostensibly intelligent people don't see what is before their very eyes, and are unable to see the obvious narratives being pursed, so long as said narrative suits their personal biases. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=BLM+protests&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA869CA869&sxsrf=ALeKk00xuaDJVCFGm2tnoQV4S_57V_WBFQ:1593832836540&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2lLaA0rLqAhU6mHIEHRipDVIQ_AUoAXoECB8QAw&biw=1440&bih=789 https://www.google.com/search?q=BLM+protests&rlz=1C5CHFA_enC... [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+beach+goers&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiPh8KC0rLqAhVPR6wKHcOpCz4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=covid+beach+goers&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyBggAEAgQHjIGCAAQCBAeOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgUIABCxAzoHCAAQsQMQQzoHCCMQ6gIQJ1D61BBY7fAQYNjxEGgFcAB4AIABkAGIAfwRkgEEOS4xM5gBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nsAEK&sclient=img&ei=iPX_Xo-jOM-OsQXD067wAw&bih=789&biw=1440&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA869CA869 https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+beach+goers&tbm=isch&v...

standardUser 6y ago

"Political agenda, or something even more sinister..." I think the simplest explanation is that the conservative right now views literally every issue as a them-versus-us issue, and as soon as it was clear that "they" thought we should wear masks, a very predictable conservative backlash occurred. I'm not sure if the president helped launch this particular battle in the "culture war" or was just a cheerleader as usual.

thoraway3030 6y ago
I'm not sure if the president helped launch this particular battle in the "culture war" or was just a cheerleader as usual The US government reversed itself on masks and recommended them before the rest of the English-speaking world. The WHO only endorsed masks a few weeks ago. I don't like Trump, but these are facts. It seems to have been politicized after Mike Pence visited the Mayo Clinic, and didn't wear a mask, and then Trump was then pushed on the issue, and reacted characteristically. If Pence had set a good example and worn a mask, or of there hadn't been a huge uproar about him not wearing a mask, would the issue have turned into a front in the culture war?
- newacct583 6y ago
  > The WHO only endorsed masks a few weeks ago. I don't like Trump, but these are facts. That's not facts, that's spin. From your phrasing, it sounds like you're saying that prior to a "few weeks ago" that the WHO policy was somehow anti-mask. It wasn't, even in January. Their policy was always that PPE should be reserved for health care workers due to scarcity, and in a few (A FEW) instances their wording of that recommendation was poor and might plausibly imply that masks don't work. No expert ever interpreted the WHO policy the way you people insist on doing. And at this point this insistence is just pathological.
  - thoraway3030 6y ago
    and in a few (A FEW) instances their wording of that recommendation was poor and might plausibly imply that masks don't work. Until Zeynep Tufekci's New York Times oped, the consensus was indeed that "masks don't work" for Covid. I documented numerous instances on social media of healthcare professionals insulting and belittling those who wore masks based on what you describe as "poor wording". Here is a Time article from 4 March that sums up the expert consensus on masks at that point (in fact it has direct quotes from experts, including an infectious diseases professor, a leading psychologist, and the Surgeon General): that masking was "superstitious", didn't work and claiming that wearing a a mask equated to knocking on wood, or not walking under a ladder. https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/ https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/
- standardUser 6y ago
  Trump has consistently made a point to not wear a mask, even when the places he was visiting specifically asked him to. Trump has also mentioned several times that he thinks masks should be optional. He has unequivocally and undeniable undermined harmed efforts to promote make mask wearing, and continues to do so.
XorNot 6y ago
The US President absolutely launched this when he decided to make the existence - let's be clear, not the severity or the appropriate level of response, but initially it was the existence of a deadly virus - a political issue, and declared it was a hoax while standing in front of the White House.
- jki275 6y ago
  Can you cite the exact quote where he said that?
  - XorNot 6y ago
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trump-says-the-coronavirus-is-the-democrats-new-hoax.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trump-says-the-coronavirus-i... Do your own Googling next time.
    - jki275 6y ago
      That story doesn't even back up your claim. My question was rhetorical. I know it's not true. I hoped you would look it up and realize your comment was inaccurate.
duckMuppet 6y ago
You're obviously ok with being lied to. A lot of folks aren't. Irrespective of how you may want too brand certain groups of individuals, it isn't only conservatives or Trump supporters who are suspect about the mask and motivations. In fact You're hero Fauci at one point made multiple statements telling the people wearing masks was ineffective and essentially silly. Again, You're fine being lied to because it's what you want to believe. The truth of it is anyone even remotely skeptical might have their spidey senses tingling. Especially given that more recent data from the CDC suggests Covid isn't even in epidemic level territory, and hasn't been since mid June.
- jariel 6y ago
  Over 120 000 Americans have died from COVID in the last few months, that's more than died during the Korean and Vietman wars put together - this is a pandemic. To quell your conspiratorial concerns about 'masks' you need only visit most of the rest of the world and find out, particularly in close-quarters E. Asian countries, they've been doing it for some time. Nobody is suggesting they are perfect, the messaging has been mixed, and we're not exactly sure of their efficiency, all of those things are allowed when supporting a 'pro mask' policy. America has been losing the battle against COVID while E. Asian countries have been doing very well, and most of the rest of the world is doing 'OK' - popular US debate is the most ridiculous, least credible place for facts. The CDC has some integrity, but this is a global phenom and literally everywhere else with integrity is taking this seriously. People are not bing 'lied to' about masks, they're getting mixed messages because the issue is inherently grey.
  - duckMuppet 6y ago
    Now do cancer.. Now do influenza. Now do suicide.. Here's one for you, take out deaths over 60 and then look at the data. Better yet.. If you statistically don't want to die, don't be over 70 in a nursing home in a state with a governor who's a Democrat. It's better than a coin flip if you're in that unfortunate category.. odds are high you're toast. I'll not blow your mind by discussing serology studies, both here and abroad. And since you enjoy using other countries datas, you should actually look into it.. Multiple countries have already noted that the lockdown are inherently unhelpful. Several countries including Italy, have both serology and fecal matter studies which show the virus is quite prevalent and is far less lethal than was believed, Especially for those younger than 50 with no co-morbidity. They also found that the virus was in fecal matter in early fall 2019, and similar findings have been found in Pennsylvania. We were likely well into the virus in January, long before masks and lockdown became a thing. It's ironic that the elderly and imfirmed are the ones actually at the greatest risk, yet our government solution is to lock down the healthy and young, while totally giving a death sentence to those most vulnerable. The death count by-day and by-week has been making record setting lows for the past few weeks now, the best since early in the year. Again, the data gives no fucks about what you want to believe. And no, according to CDC numbers, this hasn't been been even at epidemic levels since early June. And all those countries you prize so much, all of them are playing sports, with people in the stadiums, even in the UK the PM is under active investigation as to why they stayed locked down for so long when the data doesn't dictate what they were doing was correct.. I'm not trying to smash your beliefs because it's pretty clear you're a true believer and the actual science or data won't persuade you anyway.. But the idea that you would analogize this to something such as the Vietnam war leads me to believe you should've took less classes on basket weaving, gender studies, or most likely psychology, and more in maths.
rl3 6y ago
Foreign information warfare units absolutely want to be stoking that fire to the fullest extent possible. Their election interference was so wildly successful that they'd have no reason not be trying to inflict further damage on the US now.
jariel 6y ago
The 'liberal left' equally views every issue as 'us vs them'. It's very apparent by watching the daily headlines. They were against mask-wearers as 'hoarders' at the start, then pro-mask, then stopped talking about it during BLM protest and subsequent riots, and are now back at it. All of it shameful, including the fuzzy messaging from WHO, CDC, White House etc..
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  I went to a BLM protest about a week ago. Universal mask wearing there, and people were doing their best to distance as well. It's not that we "stopped talking about it"; it's that we didn't need to, because the rules were already being followed in that context.
  - jariel 6y ago
    First - 'large gatherings' are the #1 concern for social spread. Most protests were exactly that. Second - your anecdote is not useful at all given that there are tons of examples of people not practicing social distancing at protests, including most of what was shown on television. "it's that we didn't need to, because the rules were already being followed in that context." If you Google 'BLM Protest' for Google images, you get this [1] You will see in those images masses and masses of people obviously not practicing social distancing. People jammed together in the order of many thousands. And this was clear from anyone who watched any of the coverage. So why would you try to deny it? Third - the fact that CNN decided to pause their constant 'social distancing' messaging, when it was obviously clear that people were not following the rules, probably in light of the nature of the social cause - is the issue at hand. Literally the week before the protests, they were screaming at beach goers - clearly at more 'distance' than any of the protests, for failing to enact proper social distancing. If you Google 'Covid Beach Goers' [2], which by the way includes the term 'Covid' thereby implying some concern, you will see, ironically, what looks like reasonable distancing, although not that different from normal beach behaviour. So there you can see very clear evidence - massive, jam-packed protests, contrasted with fairly open and 'distanced' beach goers, with CNN lambasting one group but not the other. It's distressing how ostensibly intelligent people don't see what is before their very eyes, and are unable to see the obvious narratives being pursed, so long as said narrative suits their personal biases. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=BLM+protests&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA869CA869&sxsrf=ALeKk00xuaDJVCFGm2tnoQV4S_57V_WBFQ:1593832836540&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2lLaA0rLqAhU6mHIEHRipDVIQ_AUoAXoECB8QAw&biw=1440&bih=789 https://www.google.com/search?q=BLM+protests&rlz=1C5CHFA_enC... [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+beach+goers&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiPh8KC0rLqAhVPR6wKHcOpCz4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=covid+beach+goers&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyBggAEAgQHjIGCAAQCBAeOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgUIABCxAzoHCAAQsQMQQzoHCCMQ6gIQJ1D61BBY7fAQYNjxEGgFcAB4AIABkAGIAfwRkgEEOS4xM5gBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nsAEK&sclient=img&ei=iPX_Xo-jOM-OsQXD067wAw&bih=789&biw=1440&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA869CA869 https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+beach+goers&tbm=isch&v...