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> What confuses me is why so much scrutiny is being placed on the practice of wearing a mask. It just hardly seems like much of an inconvenience. In my experie

> What confuses me is why so much scrutiny is being placed on the practice of wearing a mask. It just hardly seems like much of an inconvenience. In my experience it is a big inconvenience. The air is not properly mixed, so one breathes back part of breathed-out air. With (cloth) facemask, i have shortness of breath after running up a staircase, and after 15 min of regular walk i start hyperventilating. While i wear facemasks and consider it a reasonable measure, the government mandate was sometimes excessive. For example, at the start of the pandemic, the government mandated wearing facemasks everywhere outside of home, even in nature far from other people. I stopped to do recreational walks in nature, as it was just too burdensome to do that with facemask. Fortunately, after several weeks, the government noticed that mandating masks in nature far from other people is nonsense and made some exceptions.

jasonpeacock 6y ago
Wearing masks do not affect oxygen intake. If what you say is true, all healthcare workers who are wearing masks 8-12hrs a day would be collapsing - and most of them are double-masking with cloth masks on top of N95 masks.
- zajio1am 6y ago
  First, it is not an issue of oxygen intake, more an issue of CO_2 elimination. The fact that non-rigid cloth facemasks at least partially block air exchange is obvious just from how they are inflating during exhalation. Second, i also wondered how healthcare workers could use that for full shifts. Perhaps my experience is related to my health issues (asthma in the past). Or perhaps improvised cloth facemasks are just much worse in this regard than surgical face masks or N95 respirators. Cloth facemasks could have just bigger air 'buffer'. N59 respirators with valve and coth mask on top could be much better, as they would have partially separated in- and out- airflow.
  - jasonpeacock 6y ago
    CO2 elimination is also not an issue: https://twitter.com/MurseWordsworth/status/1276799020673888258 https://twitter.com/MurseWordsworth/status/12767990206738882... And those with chronic health issues also see no problem with masks, despite having existing pulmonary conditions: https://twitter.com/G17Esiason/status/1277249837059264512 https://twitter.com/G17Esiason/status/1277249837059264512 Basically, the volume of air that your lungs can move, in addition to the force of exhaling/inhaling, easily overcomes any air "trapped" in the mask.
    - phonypc 6y ago
      Blood oxygen saturation is not informative in this context, and it's disconcerting to see medical professionals treat it like it is. You can hyperventilate until you pass out without your blood oxygen saturation changing.
      - erentz 6y ago
        > Blood oxygen saturation is not informative in this context, and it's disconcerting to see medical professionals treat it like it is. Watch the full video. CO2 is addressed. > You can hyperventilate until you pass out without your blood oxygen saturation changing. Passing out when you hyperventilate is from too little CO2 rather than “retention.“ The opposite of what is being claimed masks cause.
        phonypc 6y ago
        I did watch the first video in full; the other link, and three others in another post only address blood oxygen. I made no claims about CO2. I don't think wearing a mask will meaningfully affect the breathing of most people, but blood oxygen isn't meaningful in demonstrating as much. Passing out from hyperventilation is a second order effect of hypocapnia; the proximate cause is cerebral hypoxia, despite the blood being saturated.
- User23 6y ago
  It’s easy to find examples of health care workers complaining about masks interfering with their breathing[1]. That was just the first example I looked at there are plenty more. [1] https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/trouble-breathing-in-surgical-masks.742226/ https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/trouble-breathing-i...
  - jasonpeacock 6y ago
    "I feel from the moment that I put them on that I can't get quite enough to breath." That's what they are feeling - they may be claustrophobic, etc. And I believe they are feeling that. But let's look at actual data - there's no measurable impact on blood oxygen saturation when wearing masks: https://twitter.com/MurseWordsworth/status/1276799020673888258 https://twitter.com/MurseWordsworth/status/12767990206738882... https://twitter.com/AlisonKabaroff/status/1277380605487939585 https://twitter.com/AlisonKabaroff/status/127738060548793958... https://twitter.com/DrRobDavidson/status/1277565585568784385 https://twitter.com/DrRobDavidson/status/1277565585568784385
    - zajio1am 6y ago
      Arguing with blood oxygen saturation is prety much strawman. Nobody here claims that facemasks impact that. Effects of insufficient CO_2 elimination are much earlier. If you were in badly ventilated room with 2000 ppm CO_2, you would feel dizziness even that you would still have full oxygen saturation.
    - User23 6y ago
      That’s not data, that’s a few anecdotes.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        You seemed fine with anecdotes upthread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23728608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23728608
        6y ago
standardUser 6y ago
"... even in nature far from other people" Yes, some governments issued nonsense warnings like this. But don't let the dumb proclamations of a few politicians impact your overall opinion on mask usage. These days, most guidances seem to be largely fact-based, thank god.
newacct583 6y ago
> With (cloth) facemask, i have shortness of breath after running up a staircase, and after 15 min of regular walk i start hyperventilating. Talk to a doctor. This is not normal. Running up a staircase is done with oxygen in your tissue, it doesn't involve breathing per se, your body buffers all that you need. And regardless: there's not NEARLY enough air space behind your mask to store a full (~1L) exhalation. What you claim isn't even physically possible. Gas goes through and around the mask and mixes with your environment. Frankly, (and I don't say this in spite, I promise!) your symptoms track more closely to anxiety than to any physical problem. Talk to your doctor, you'll probably feel better about things.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  People with actual breathing difficulties do, in fact, experience symptoms like that with masks, which do aggravate them (I believe by increasing the proportion of rebreathed air, slightly lowering O2 concentration which can be problematic combined with existing breathing problems.) It's also possible to experience symptoms like that (thought usually also with intense itching and other sensations that make it clear that it's an allergy) if the max contains an allergen to which you are sensitive. (Some masks contain latex, which is a not-super-uncommon allergen.)
- zajio1am 6y ago
  > And regardless: there's not NEARLY enough air space behind your mask to store a full (~1L) exhalation. What you claim isn't even physically possible. According to Wikipedia, normal level exhalation (tidal) volume is ~500 ml and has ~5 % CO_2. If only 10 % of exhalation (50 ml) is breathed back with 90 % of fresh air, then one is breathing equivalent of ~5000 ppm CO_2. I am sure that improvized cloth facemasks have bigger air 'buffer' than this. Although measure it precisely would be hard.
fredophile 6y ago
I have a hard time believing your air mixing argument is a big issue for most people. Tonnes of people go snorkelling and don't experience the type of problems you mentioned. When you inhale the air inside a snorkel is more likely to have just been exhaled since it doesn't have anywhere it can go. To me this suggests your issue is either psychological or you have something else compromising your respiratory system and should definitely be taking every precaution against covid that you can
- fredophile 6y ago
  Apparently this was an unpopular opinion so I went back and checked the math. A snorkel is about 18 inches long with a diameter of 0.75 inches. This gives it a volume of 7.95 cubic inches or 130 ml. The poster I replied to suggested, in another comment, that rebreathing volumes as low as 50ml could be problematic. If that were the case you would run into major issues with snorkeling. I am not saying that there aren't people that have difficulty breathing in masks. I am saying that having difficulty wearing a mask is not normal and you should discuss it with your doctor to find out why.

jasonpeacock 6y ago

Wearing masks do not affect oxygen intake. If what you say is true, all healthcare workers who are wearing masks 8-12hrs a day would be collapsing - and most of them are double-masking with cloth masks on top of N95 masks.

zajio1am 6y ago
First, it is not an issue of oxygen intake, more an issue of CO_2 elimination. The fact that non-rigid cloth facemasks at least partially block air exchange is obvious just from how they are inflating during exhalation. Second, i also wondered how healthcare workers could use that for full shifts. Perhaps my experience is related to my health issues (asthma in the past). Or perhaps improvised cloth facemasks are just much worse in this regard than surgical face masks or N95 respirators. Cloth facemasks could have just bigger air 'buffer'. N59 respirators with valve and coth mask on top could be much better, as they would have partially separated in- and out- airflow.
- jasonpeacock 6y ago
  CO2 elimination is also not an issue: https://twitter.com/MurseWordsworth/status/1276799020673888258 https://twitter.com/MurseWordsworth/status/12767990206738882... And those with chronic health issues also see no problem with masks, despite having existing pulmonary conditions: https://twitter.com/G17Esiason/status/1277249837059264512 https://twitter.com/G17Esiason/status/1277249837059264512 Basically, the volume of air that your lungs can move, in addition to the force of exhaling/inhaling, easily overcomes any air "trapped" in the mask.
  - phonypc 6y ago
    Blood oxygen saturation is not informative in this context, and it's disconcerting to see medical professionals treat it like it is. You can hyperventilate until you pass out without your blood oxygen saturation changing.
    - erentz 6y ago
      > Blood oxygen saturation is not informative in this context, and it's disconcerting to see medical professionals treat it like it is. Watch the full video. CO2 is addressed. > You can hyperventilate until you pass out without your blood oxygen saturation changing. Passing out when you hyperventilate is from too little CO2 rather than “retention.“ The opposite of what is being claimed masks cause.
      - phonypc 6y ago
        I did watch the first video in full; the other link, and three others in another post only address blood oxygen. I made no claims about CO2. I don't think wearing a mask will meaningfully affect the breathing of most people, but blood oxygen isn't meaningful in demonstrating as much. Passing out from hyperventilation is a second order effect of hypocapnia; the proximate cause is cerebral hypoxia, despite the blood being saturated.
User23 6y ago
It’s easy to find examples of health care workers complaining about masks interfering with their breathing[1]. That was just the first example I looked at there are plenty more. [1] https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/trouble-breathing-in-surgical-masks.742226/ https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/trouble-breathing-i...
- jasonpeacock 6y ago
  "I feel from the moment that I put them on that I can't get quite enough to breath." That's what they are feeling - they may be claustrophobic, etc. And I believe they are feeling that. But let's look at actual data - there's no measurable impact on blood oxygen saturation when wearing masks: https://twitter.com/MurseWordsworth/status/1276799020673888258 https://twitter.com/MurseWordsworth/status/12767990206738882... https://twitter.com/AlisonKabaroff/status/1277380605487939585 https://twitter.com/AlisonKabaroff/status/127738060548793958... https://twitter.com/DrRobDavidson/status/1277565585568784385 https://twitter.com/DrRobDavidson/status/1277565585568784385
  - zajio1am 6y ago
    Arguing with blood oxygen saturation is prety much strawman. Nobody here claims that facemasks impact that. Effects of insufficient CO_2 elimination are much earlier. If you were in badly ventilated room with 2000 ppm CO_2, you would feel dizziness even that you would still have full oxygen saturation.
  - User23 6y ago
    That’s not data, that’s a few anecdotes.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      You seemed fine with anecdotes upthread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23728608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23728608
      - 6y ago

standardUser 6y ago

"... even in nature far from other people" Yes, some governments issued nonsense warnings like this. But don't let the dumb proclamations of a few politicians impact your overall opinion on mask usage. These days, most guidances seem to be largely fact-based, thank god.

newacct583 6y ago

> With (cloth) facemask, i have shortness of breath after running up a staircase, and after 15 min of regular walk i start hyperventilating. Talk to a doctor. This is not normal. Running up a staircase is done with oxygen in your tissue, it doesn't involve breathing per se, your body buffers all that you need. And regardless: there's not NEARLY enough air space behind your mask to store a full (~1L) exhalation. What you claim isn't even physically possible. Gas goes through and around the mask and mixes with your environment. Frankly, (and I don't say this in spite, I promise!) your symptoms track more closely to anxiety than to any physical problem. Talk to your doctor, you'll probably feel better about things.

dragonwriter 6y ago
People with actual breathing difficulties do, in fact, experience symptoms like that with masks, which do aggravate them (I believe by increasing the proportion of rebreathed air, slightly lowering O2 concentration which can be problematic combined with existing breathing problems.) It's also possible to experience symptoms like that (thought usually also with intense itching and other sensations that make it clear that it's an allergy) if the max contains an allergen to which you are sensitive. (Some masks contain latex, which is a not-super-uncommon allergen.)
zajio1am 6y ago
> And regardless: there's not NEARLY enough air space behind your mask to store a full (~1L) exhalation. What you claim isn't even physically possible. According to Wikipedia, normal level exhalation (tidal) volume is ~500 ml and has ~5 % CO_2. If only 10 % of exhalation (50 ml) is breathed back with 90 % of fresh air, then one is breathing equivalent of ~5000 ppm CO_2. I am sure that improvized cloth facemasks have bigger air 'buffer' than this. Although measure it precisely would be hard.

fredophile 6y ago

I have a hard time believing your air mixing argument is a big issue for most people. Tonnes of people go snorkelling and don't experience the type of problems you mentioned. When you inhale the air inside a snorkel is more likely to have just been exhaled since it doesn't have anywhere it can go. To me this suggests your issue is either psychological or you have something else compromising your respiratory system and should definitely be taking every precaution against covid that you can

fredophile 6y ago
Apparently this was an unpopular opinion so I went back and checked the math. A snorkel is about 18 inches long with a diameter of 0.75 inches. This gives it a volume of 7.95 cubic inches or 130 ml. The poster I replied to suggested, in another comment, that rebreathing volumes as low as 50ml could be problematic. If that were the case you would run into major issues with snorkeling. I am not saying that there aren't people that have difficulty breathing in masks. I am saying that having difficulty wearing a mask is not normal and you should discuss it with your doctor to find out why.