6 ms·

This is such a great idea. In Vietnam I stayed in a few AirBNB's that were 20 floor buildings: the bottom floor was grocery, gym, bank, restaurants, and the top

This is such a great idea. In Vietnam I stayed in a few AirBNB's that were 20 floor buildings: the bottom floor was grocery, gym, bank, restaurants, and the top floors were all residential, with pools on the very top floor of one swanky place. I'm seeing this in Seattle and Portland, too. Converting malls to residential has huge potential for all-in-one living.

ghaff 6y ago
The malls that are going bankrupt in the US tend to be those in at least somewhat downscale suburbs/exurbs. The mall that's relatively close to me had a Sears, Macy's, and JC Penney as anchor tenants. All are now closed. There is a close by busy grocery store and Home Depot. But upscale shopping malls in elite cities were actually doing pretty well prior to the current situation.
- x87678r 6y ago
  > Sears, Macy's, and JC Penney as anchor tenants. All are now closed. Hey coincidentally my local mall has the same! Except our Macy's is kinda open.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Also a Toys R'Us in the immediate vicinity. The complex has traded hands a couple of times in the past few years at a significant devaluation each time. The next mall over isn't much better (K-Mart among other things). There are some reasonably affluent rural/exurban communities in the area but the three nearby small cities are fairly rundown old mill towns.
- staycoolboy 6y ago
  > But upscale shopping malls in elte cities were actually doing pretty well prior to the current situation. I believe that is called "Retail Therapy" but it only works if you have money to burn. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-why-behind-the-buy/201305/why-retail-therapy-works https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-why-behind-the-b... As we've seen, most people don't have money to burn, as "most american's have no savings": https://www.axios.com/americans-emergency-savings-coronavirus-f11deffc-b8c1-48e0-a3db-0aeb3ce74fb9.html https://www.axios.com/americans-emergency-savings-coronaviru... or... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/41-percent-of-americans-would-be-able-to-cover-1000-dollar-emergency-with-savings.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/41-percent-of-americans-woul... https://www.fool.com/retirement/2020/03/27/nearly-50-of-americans-dont-have-enough-emergency.aspx https://www.fool.com/retirement/2020/03/27/nearly-50-of-amer...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
    True, though many Americans have access to credit. Though that can't be sustained, it can work for a while.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Some malls have adapted to the situation by adapting to changing demographics and tastes: here's an article about malls being adapted into Hispanic-centered malls: https://adage.com/article/the-big-tent/malls-pitched-hispanics-taking/241616 https://adage.com/article/the-big-tent/malls-pitched-hispani... The major issue that a traditional mall has is that the segment of the market served by Sears, Macy's, and JC Penny does not really compete well with online equivalents that involve less fuss. You need some type of differentiation, whether or not that is upscale exclusivity or niches like catering to specific ethnic needs.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    And those stores also did not compete well with Walmart which AFAIK has never taken the anchor store strategy approach, although of course it is in strip malls.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      Yeah, upscale department stores were saved by the fact that a standalone Gucci store would not work in most places, unlike a standalone Gap or Old Navy or Home Depot. The big box format is also interesting, because the big boxes were not built to last and a good deal of what made the finances work was local governments of rural and new-growth suburban areas falling over themselves to provide tax breaks for jobs. This strategy didn't pan out too well when they tried expanding into urban areas using the exact same format (they are now changing it up), and now the big box stores are at the end of their useful lives and a lot are being abandoned as well.
      - wolco 6y ago
        Big box stores dominate us more than ever. Walmarts everywhere. I consider amazon to be an online big box store.
        bobthepanda 6y ago
        Generally speaking, today's big box stores are actually not the same physical ones as the first generation. Walmart has not really opened new stores, mostly closing them in recent years: https://www.mashed.com/148703/the-real-reason-walmart-is-closing-down-stores/ https://www.mashed.com/148703/the-real-reason-walmart-is-clo... And to be clear, when I say big box store, I do mean the physical store itself; Amazon has a lot of the same market segments, but they are not themselves opening stores in large amounts.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  The malls are going down because their key tenants are going under. Sears, JC Penny's, Macy's and plenty of small entities. Malls aren't exciting enough. They're not special enough. It's a 20th Century experience that hasn't been updated in too long. At this point there's no time or money for a makeover. They're too focused on staying alive.
paulcole 6y ago
Where are you seeing this in Portland in a way that’s different than any other city? Mixed use ground floor with residential above isn’t that revolutionary.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  This type of land use would be illegal to build new, or saddled with so much parking requirement to be financially unviable, in most of the country. It is the historical form of the American city, but the midcentury turned its nose up at dirty noisy cities and promoted single-use Euclidean zoning to the extreme.
- staycoolboy 6y ago
  True: first-floor retail is as old as multi-story buildings. What is different about it now is the large number of stores that are accessible only from inside a single building. I was in Portland last fall and there were these buildings on the river and one had a restaurant, a coffee shop, a spin class, and a work space in the same building, with the entrances near the elevators where tenants get immediate access. I've never see in that in Boston, San Fran or NYC, where the first floor is a business, but faces the outside street. The portland thing was like its own mothership on a block, rather than a bunch of mixed used places on a mile-long street.

ghaff 6y ago

The malls that are going bankrupt in the US tend to be those in at least somewhat downscale suburbs/exurbs. The mall that's relatively close to me had a Sears, Macy's, and JC Penney as anchor tenants. All are now closed. There is a close by busy grocery store and Home Depot. But upscale shopping malls in elite cities were actually doing pretty well prior to the current situation.

x87678r 6y ago
> Sears, Macy's, and JC Penney as anchor tenants. All are now closed. Hey coincidentally my local mall has the same! Except our Macy's is kinda open.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Also a Toys R'Us in the immediate vicinity. The complex has traded hands a couple of times in the past few years at a significant devaluation each time. The next mall over isn't much better (K-Mart among other things). There are some reasonably affluent rural/exurban communities in the area but the three nearby small cities are fairly rundown old mill towns.
staycoolboy 6y ago
> But upscale shopping malls in elte cities were actually doing pretty well prior to the current situation. I believe that is called "Retail Therapy" but it only works if you have money to burn. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-why-behind-the-buy/201305/why-retail-therapy-works https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-why-behind-the-b... As we've seen, most people don't have money to burn, as "most american's have no savings": https://www.axios.com/americans-emergency-savings-coronavirus-f11deffc-b8c1-48e0-a3db-0aeb3ce74fb9.html https://www.axios.com/americans-emergency-savings-coronaviru... or... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/41-percent-of-americans-would-be-able-to-cover-1000-dollar-emergency-with-savings.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/41-percent-of-americans-woul... https://www.fool.com/retirement/2020/03/27/nearly-50-of-americans-dont-have-enough-emergency.aspx https://www.fool.com/retirement/2020/03/27/nearly-50-of-amer...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- blacksmith_tb 6y ago
  True, though many Americans have access to credit. Though that can't be sustained, it can work for a while.
bobthepanda 6y ago
Some malls have adapted to the situation by adapting to changing demographics and tastes: here's an article about malls being adapted into Hispanic-centered malls: https://adage.com/article/the-big-tent/malls-pitched-hispanics-taking/241616 https://adage.com/article/the-big-tent/malls-pitched-hispani... The major issue that a traditional mall has is that the segment of the market served by Sears, Macy's, and JC Penny does not really compete well with online equivalents that involve less fuss. You need some type of differentiation, whether or not that is upscale exclusivity or niches like catering to specific ethnic needs.
- ghaff 6y ago
  And those stores also did not compete well with Walmart which AFAIK has never taken the anchor store strategy approach, although of course it is in strip malls.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Yeah, upscale department stores were saved by the fact that a standalone Gucci store would not work in most places, unlike a standalone Gap or Old Navy or Home Depot. The big box format is also interesting, because the big boxes were not built to last and a good deal of what made the finances work was local governments of rural and new-growth suburban areas falling over themselves to provide tax breaks for jobs. This strategy didn't pan out too well when they tried expanding into urban areas using the exact same format (they are now changing it up), and now the big box stores are at the end of their useful lives and a lot are being abandoned as well.
    - wolco 6y ago
      Big box stores dominate us more than ever. Walmarts everywhere. I consider amazon to be an online big box store.
      - bobthepanda 6y ago
        Generally speaking, today's big box stores are actually not the same physical ones as the first generation. Walmart has not really opened new stores, mostly closing them in recent years: https://www.mashed.com/148703/the-real-reason-walmart-is-closing-down-stores/ https://www.mashed.com/148703/the-real-reason-walmart-is-clo... And to be clear, when I say big box store, I do mean the physical store itself; Amazon has a lot of the same market segments, but they are not themselves opening stores in large amounts.
chiefalchemist 6y ago
The malls are going down because their key tenants are going under. Sears, JC Penny's, Macy's and plenty of small entities. Malls aren't exciting enough. They're not special enough. It's a 20th Century experience that hasn't been updated in too long. At this point there's no time or money for a makeover. They're too focused on staying alive.

paulcole 6y ago

Where are you seeing this in Portland in a way that’s different than any other city? Mixed use ground floor with residential above isn’t that revolutionary.

bobthepanda 6y ago
This type of land use would be illegal to build new, or saddled with so much parking requirement to be financially unviable, in most of the country. It is the historical form of the American city, but the midcentury turned its nose up at dirty noisy cities and promoted single-use Euclidean zoning to the extreme.
staycoolboy 6y ago
True: first-floor retail is as old as multi-story buildings. What is different about it now is the large number of stores that are accessible only from inside a single building. I was in Portland last fall and there were these buildings on the river and one had a restaurant, a coffee shop, a spin class, and a work space in the same building, with the entrances near the elevators where tenants get immediate access. I've never see in that in Boston, San Fran or NYC, where the first floor is a business, but faces the outside street. The portland thing was like its own mothership on a block, rather than a bunch of mixed used places on a mile-long street.