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It's all unrolled here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1278413772680507392.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1278413772680507392.html Personally, I

It's all unrolled here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1278413772680507392.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1278413772680507392.html Personally, I think this is bad form. He should have quietly told the seller that the data is recoverable rather than broadcast it all over Twitter. The last thing we need is the Police finding reasons NOT to wear bodycams.

grawprog 6y ago
All police body cam footage should be public. Their work is paid for by tax money, they are supposed to be public servants. Governments, including their police force should be transparent to public they're supposed to be serving.
- Jaruzel 6y ago
  And if you were falsely arrested, and had the footage out there without your consent, you'd be happy for that too? It's a double edged sword I think.
  - gruez 6y ago
    I don't think the parent comment (or anyone for that matter) is advocating for the unauthorized public release of bodycam footage. I think his point is that as public servants with extraordinary power, the public interest trumps any personal expectations of privacy while on the job. As such, the public shouldn't tolerate "but privacy!" as an excuse from police officers not to have bodycams.
- tmoravec 6y ago
  While I agree with the sentiment that public workers should be accountable to the tax payers, let's not forget they are still humans. Would you like your employer to point a cam at your desk and have it recording at all times?
  - grawprog 6y ago
    Fortunately, my job doesn't require me to carry firearms, detain citizens or uphold laws. Furthermore, when I was being paid by government grant money, we were accountable for every thing we did while being paid and every penny we spent. We were required to make regular reports and justify everything. It'd be nice to see even that level of accountability with policing.
  - emilfihlman 6y ago
    If my desk was the outside and I was enforcing "laws" with possibly deadly force, I shouldn't have a say in if I like it or not: it (should) come(s) with the work.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >Would you like your employer to point a cam at your desk and have it recording at all times? You can always... get another job. If you don't accept the surveillance that comes with your power to inflict violence with impunity, maybe you shouldn't be given the power in the first place.
    - me_me_me 6y ago
      I agree with that sentiment, however... In EU there are shows where TV crew is embedded in highway police (traffic police). They never let people off with a warning. I literally never seen it happen. And in Europe in real life you have a chance to be caught for small infraction and receive waggle of the proverbial finger of the law. So having all police live stream their cams might not only curb bad behavior of bad cops, but also good behavior of good cops.
      - gruez 6y ago
        I hear this argument a lot (ie. "body cams will eliminate/reduce police discretion"), but I always wonder, is that a bad thing? If the department policy is that everyone that goes 10mph over the limit is ticketed, and you don't get off because of your charisma (or not being a minority), is that a bad thing?
    - 6y ago
- dgellow 6y ago
  You may want to read the dystopian book “The circle”, that reasoning is a part of the plot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(Eggers_novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(Eggers_novel) Spoiler: creating a public panopticon doesn’t necessarily results in a sane society
- TheChaplain 6y ago
  You forget that body cameras also record victims and bystanders.
  - fortran77 6y ago
    And the _accused_. Those people need the most protection of all. The only category people that get any "special rights" in our Constitution are the accused. And for good reason.
- phkahler 6y ago
  >> All police body cam footage should be public. Even if they're busting a brothel? Or arresting drunk drivers? Or breaking up a bar fight? I get that people want transparency for "public servants" but I dont think people necessarily want transparency into regular peoples lives even if their actions are questionable. That leads to 24/7 suveilence under the poor argument of "if you have nothing to hide..."
  - jmvoodoo 6y ago
    Redaction systems exist and are used for exactly this purpose. It's entirely possible to be transparent and protect citizen privacy. I work with a company that provides this type of technology for FOIA requests so I'm fairly familiar with it :)
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      How do you redact the arrest of someone who turns out to be innocent?
      - plussed_reader 6y ago
        Usually via the general fund of the locality where the video was recorded.
      - jmvoodoo 6y ago
        You remove their face and change their voice in the video. At least, when you're talking about body cam footage. You also blur license plates, addresses, etc. That's what is already being done for information requests to law enforcement. This isn't a hypothetical btw. This is actually how it happens in many jurisdictions, and some law enforcement agencies are being proactive about this and thinking through how to be more transparent without risking privacy of innocent or guilty parties (both deserve privacy).
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  This is trying to solve an institutional issue (police accountability) with technology. I don't think it will work and it will just normalize more surveillance. No amount of body cam footage is going to force DAs to prosecute, juries to convict, and police departments to discipline as long as a culture of circling the wagons exists. If you doubt that, look at how much footage was available of the arrest and murder of Eric Garner. And the officer responsible was still not indicted.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  By this argument all government employees must wear body cams, and the archived streams should be open to public viewing. I don't think OP believes that. But it's what they said.
morpheuskafka 6y ago
Not sure what telling the seller would do, they are just some third party reseller. I suspect that there probably is a way to wipe these, although I don't know for sure, and the manufacturer should take this as an opportunity to remind agencies to do so before disposal.
bathtub365 6y ago
It would be great if police found ways to do their jobs that didn't require them to wear body cams because they can't be trusted not to lie, kill, steal, and torture citizens.

grawprog 6y ago

All police body cam footage should be public. Their work is paid for by tax money, they are supposed to be public servants. Governments, including their police force should be transparent to public they're supposed to be serving.

Jaruzel 6y ago
And if you were falsely arrested, and had the footage out there without your consent, you'd be happy for that too? It's a double edged sword I think.
- gruez 6y ago
  I don't think the parent comment (or anyone for that matter) is advocating for the unauthorized public release of bodycam footage. I think his point is that as public servants with extraordinary power, the public interest trumps any personal expectations of privacy while on the job. As such, the public shouldn't tolerate "but privacy!" as an excuse from police officers not to have bodycams.
tmoravec 6y ago
While I agree with the sentiment that public workers should be accountable to the tax payers, let's not forget they are still humans. Would you like your employer to point a cam at your desk and have it recording at all times?
- grawprog 6y ago
  Fortunately, my job doesn't require me to carry firearms, detain citizens or uphold laws. Furthermore, when I was being paid by government grant money, we were accountable for every thing we did while being paid and every penny we spent. We were required to make regular reports and justify everything. It'd be nice to see even that level of accountability with policing.
- emilfihlman 6y ago
  If my desk was the outside and I was enforcing "laws" with possibly deadly force, I shouldn't have a say in if I like it or not: it (should) come(s) with the work.
- gruez 6y ago
  >Would you like your employer to point a cam at your desk and have it recording at all times? You can always... get another job. If you don't accept the surveillance that comes with your power to inflict violence with impunity, maybe you shouldn't be given the power in the first place.
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    I agree with that sentiment, however... In EU there are shows where TV crew is embedded in highway police (traffic police). They never let people off with a warning. I literally never seen it happen. And in Europe in real life you have a chance to be caught for small infraction and receive waggle of the proverbial finger of the law. So having all police live stream their cams might not only curb bad behavior of bad cops, but also good behavior of good cops.
    - gruez 6y ago
      I hear this argument a lot (ie. "body cams will eliminate/reduce police discretion"), but I always wonder, is that a bad thing? If the department policy is that everyone that goes 10mph over the limit is ticketed, and you don't get off because of your charisma (or not being a minority), is that a bad thing?
  - 6y ago
dgellow 6y ago
You may want to read the dystopian book “The circle”, that reasoning is a part of the plot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(Eggers_novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(Eggers_novel) Spoiler: creating a public panopticon doesn’t necessarily results in a sane society
TheChaplain 6y ago
You forget that body cameras also record victims and bystanders.
- fortran77 6y ago
  And the _accused_. Those people need the most protection of all. The only category people that get any "special rights" in our Constitution are the accused. And for good reason.
phkahler 6y ago
>> All police body cam footage should be public. Even if they're busting a brothel? Or arresting drunk drivers? Or breaking up a bar fight? I get that people want transparency for "public servants" but I dont think people necessarily want transparency into regular peoples lives even if their actions are questionable. That leads to 24/7 suveilence under the poor argument of "if you have nothing to hide..."
- jmvoodoo 6y ago
  Redaction systems exist and are used for exactly this purpose. It's entirely possible to be transparent and protect citizen privacy. I work with a company that provides this type of technology for FOIA requests so I'm fairly familiar with it :)
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    How do you redact the arrest of someone who turns out to be innocent?
    - plussed_reader 6y ago
      Usually via the general fund of the locality where the video was recorded.
    - jmvoodoo 6y ago
      You remove their face and change their voice in the video. At least, when you're talking about body cam footage. You also blur license plates, addresses, etc. That's what is already being done for information requests to law enforcement. This isn't a hypothetical btw. This is actually how it happens in many jurisdictions, and some law enforcement agencies are being proactive about this and thinking through how to be more transparent without risking privacy of innocent or guilty parties (both deserve privacy).
AlexandrB 6y ago
This is trying to solve an institutional issue (police accountability) with technology. I don't think it will work and it will just normalize more surveillance. No amount of body cam footage is going to force DAs to prosecute, juries to convict, and police departments to discipline as long as a culture of circling the wagons exists. If you doubt that, look at how much footage was available of the arrest and murder of Eric Garner. And the officer responsible was still not indicted.
BurningFrog 6y ago
By this argument all government employees must wear body cams, and the archived streams should be open to public viewing. I don't think OP believes that. But it's what they said.

morpheuskafka 6y ago

Not sure what telling the seller would do, they are just some third party reseller. I suspect that there probably is a way to wipe these, although I don't know for sure, and the manufacturer should take this as an opportunity to remind agencies to do so before disposal.

bathtub365 6y ago

It would be great if police found ways to do their jobs that didn't require them to wear body cams because they can't be trusted not to lie, kill, steal, and torture citizens.