4 ms·

I see a resurgence in marketing similar to Mad Men: where firms don’t have access to highly personalized data, and eventually, will actually have to be creative

I see a resurgence in marketing similar to Mad Men: where firms don’t have access to highly personalized data, and eventually, will actually have to be creative, instead of just using algorithms parameterized with user tracking/profile data

notatoad 6y ago
i can't imagine how somebody could see the creative process in Mad Men and think that's something to be emulated. It's a bunch of privileged rich people (ad execs) coming up with ideas that they think are clever, and the only criteria for whether or not those ideas are good is if other privileged rich people (client company execs) agree. There's no objective measures of success, just a bunch of people patting each other on the back because they all see the world the same way.
- hn_check 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure there is an "objective measure of success" in the most plainly obvious way possible -- sales. Versus the bullshitty stats like impressions or accidental click-throughs that dominate online advertising.
  - cpach 6y ago
    “Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don’t know which half.”
    - hn_check 6y ago
      "So give me some horseshit garbage numbers and we'll call it a day!" In the end what actually elicits a feeling about a brand, or a choice to act, is in no way the thing that people are actually measuring.
  - notatoad 6y ago
    If you're only running one campaign in one channel, and your product hasn't improved, and the competition's product and marketing hasn't changed, and there are no external events that will trigger a change in demand, then i suppose you could take sales as a measure of success.
    - shkkmo 6y ago
      The only true metric that motivates marketing companies is ad sales. As another commenter mentions, the creative department in Mad Men existed mostly to help sell ads rather than the the products in the ads. I think advertising metrics and targeting serve a similar role today.
      - fmajid 6y ago
        Marketing departments want metrics that justify ad budgets and thus the Marketing department's budget. Ad metrics that show ads are ineffective, while valuable to the business, run counter to the Marketing department's incentives, and are thus suppressed. In a rational company, ad attribution, or aggregate-level analysis using techniques like Vector Autoregression (VAR) should be owned by the CFO to avoid that conflict of interest, as shown in this article: https://thecorrespondent.com/100/the-new-dot-com-bubble-is-here-its-called-online-advertising https://thecorrespondent.com/100/the-new-dot-com-bubble-is-h...
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    It's remarkably difficult to measure the actual impact of that sort of brand-building marketing. And was basically impossible in the timeframe that Mad Men was set; they just didn't have the observability.
- throwaway122378 6y ago
  You must be real fun
the_reformation 6y ago
In the second episode the show, one of the copy writers literally states that all the firm's value is in its ad-placement team (radio, print, billboards, soon television), and the copy is just thrown in as gift-wrapping.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  Yes all the value is there but it's not the way you think it is (in the internet age) Think how much money there was (and is) in liasing ad agencies with Media buying/planning (this is the department's name) Think how well the companies will treat you if you, let's say, want to place an ad in the Superbowl, or at a TV prime-time slot The ad agencies are the true customers of the TV companies. Who do you think gets all the pampering (and possibly kickbacks)?
- scarface74 6y ago
  See Computer Shopper of the mid 90s.
umvi 6y ago
Let's just start charging for services
1propionyl 6y ago
The future of marketing is already here, and it's influencer marketing, as well as more subtle forms of manipulation on social media. I guess you could call it creative. But it's also even more insidious and dishonest.
- JIBitator 6y ago
  On reddit there more and more companies that manipulate threads in their favors. On niche porn subreddits, the feeds are now invaded by profiles with links to onlyfans pages. They are sneaky because they verify their accounts with photoshopped pictures.

notatoad 6y ago

i can't imagine how somebody could see the creative process in Mad Men and think that's something to be emulated. It's a bunch of privileged rich people (ad execs) coming up with ideas that they think are clever, and the only criteria for whether or not those ideas are good is if other privileged rich people (client company execs) agree. There's no objective measures of success, just a bunch of people patting each other on the back because they all see the world the same way.

hn_check 6y ago
I'm pretty sure there is an "objective measure of success" in the most plainly obvious way possible -- sales. Versus the bullshitty stats like impressions or accidental click-throughs that dominate online advertising.
- cpach 6y ago
  “Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don’t know which half.”
  - hn_check 6y ago
    "So give me some horseshit garbage numbers and we'll call it a day!" In the end what actually elicits a feeling about a brand, or a choice to act, is in no way the thing that people are actually measuring.
- notatoad 6y ago
  If you're only running one campaign in one channel, and your product hasn't improved, and the competition's product and marketing hasn't changed, and there are no external events that will trigger a change in demand, then i suppose you could take sales as a measure of success.
  - shkkmo 6y ago
    The only true metric that motivates marketing companies is ad sales. As another commenter mentions, the creative department in Mad Men existed mostly to help sell ads rather than the the products in the ads. I think advertising metrics and targeting serve a similar role today.
    - fmajid 6y ago
      Marketing departments want metrics that justify ad budgets and thus the Marketing department's budget. Ad metrics that show ads are ineffective, while valuable to the business, run counter to the Marketing department's incentives, and are thus suppressed. In a rational company, ad attribution, or aggregate-level analysis using techniques like Vector Autoregression (VAR) should be owned by the CFO to avoid that conflict of interest, as shown in this article: https://thecorrespondent.com/100/the-new-dot-com-bubble-is-here-its-called-online-advertising https://thecorrespondent.com/100/the-new-dot-com-bubble-is-h...
- rsynnott 6y ago
  It's remarkably difficult to measure the actual impact of that sort of brand-building marketing. And was basically impossible in the timeframe that Mad Men was set; they just didn't have the observability.
throwaway122378 6y ago
You must be real fun

the_reformation 6y ago

In the second episode the show, one of the copy writers literally states that all the firm's value is in its ad-placement team (radio, print, billboards, soon television), and the copy is just thrown in as gift-wrapping.

raverbashing 6y ago
Yes all the value is there but it's not the way you think it is (in the internet age) Think how much money there was (and is) in liasing ad agencies with Media buying/planning (this is the department's name) Think how well the companies will treat you if you, let's say, want to place an ad in the Superbowl, or at a TV prime-time slot The ad agencies are the true customers of the TV companies. Who do you think gets all the pampering (and possibly kickbacks)?
scarface74 6y ago
See Computer Shopper of the mid 90s.

umvi 6y ago

Let's just start charging for services

1propionyl 6y ago

The future of marketing is already here, and it's influencer marketing, as well as more subtle forms of manipulation on social media. I guess you could call it creative. But it's also even more insidious and dishonest.

JIBitator 6y ago
On reddit there more and more companies that manipulate threads in their favors. On niche porn subreddits, the feeds are now invaded by profiles with links to onlyfans pages. They are sneaky because they verify their accounts with photoshopped pictures.