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Roads in rural areas are a HUGE problem. Particular in remote / forested places where logging roads were used in TIGER data. For example, places like this: http

Roads in rural areas are a HUGE problem. Particular in remote / forested places where logging roads were used in TIGER data. For example, places like this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.6397/-87.7149 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.6397/-87.7149 There's a number of us who use this kind of data for building back country cycling routes, and while it's great guidance, there's both the problem with roads being listed that are no longer passable (nor often even visible at ground level), or other routes available that don't exist. Of course, this gets back to the way much of the data is crowd sourced... And we're working on that. :)

gerbal 6y ago
Anecdotally, in Northern Wisconsin, GMaps is only slightly better than OSM on abandoned logging roads. There are a lot of private gated or abandoned roads and logging tracks which Google Maps will use for route planning.
- c0nsumer 6y ago
  That's kinda how it is here. The best thing seems to be to bounce between Google Maps and OSM and an aerial view to get a sense of what's up. For an interesting example, check out this place: Google: https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4133003,-87.5248774,5345m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4133003,-87.5248774,5345m/da... OSM: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.4161/-87.5406 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.4161/-87.5406 Neither has the actual current lake boundaries (as used as a retention pond), Google has roads where the lake is while OSM doesn't, etc.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    3dep can be a huge help in figuring out how prominent tree covered roads are. https://elevation.nationalmap.gov/arcgis/rest/services/3DEPElevation/ImageServer https://elevation.nationalmap.gov/arcgis/rest/services/3DEPE... It's listed as a Theme Overlay at https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/services/ https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/services/
    - c0nsumer 6y ago
      Thanks, this is interesting. I checked a few spots and it doesn't seem to be quite helpful for what I'm looking for (seeing if a road has had brush grow back in over it making it impassable) but this would be quite useful for other things.
Doctor_Fegg 6y ago
> Roads in rural areas are a HUGE problem *in the US - it's a TIGER-specific thing (and certainly not exclusive to OSM). It doesn't affect the rest of the world. Interested to learn what you're doing with cycling routes - I've been working on improving cycling directions in the US (for my site, cycle.travel) for a few years.
- c0nsumer 6y ago
  Yes, the TIGER problem is, but I don't think missing (or wrong due to physical abandonment) is a US-only problem. For cycling stuff I'm mostly ensuring that mountain bike-specific trails are in OSM and properly tagged (eg: highway=path and NOT highway=cycleway as some are wont to do), with appropriate intersection markers, names, etc. My goal is to ensure that these trails are in OSM so they'll flow down to Garmin, Trailforks, Mapbox / Strava, etc. I also use the OSM data, exported to vectors, to make PDF maps to support the local trail advocacy/building org that I'm part of. As examples, check out my edit history: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/c0nsumer/history#map=7/44.608/-85.273 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/c0nsumer/history#map=7/44... Here's examples of the print maps I've made. Versions of these hang at many trailheads in southeast Michigan: 1: http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/stonycreek/CRAMBA_Stony_Creek_07-Jul-2015.pdf http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/stonycreek/CRAMBA_Stony_C... 2: http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/pontiaclake/CRAMBA_Pontiac_Lake_17-Jun-2014.pdf http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/pontiaclake/CRAMBA_Pontia... 3: http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/riverbends/CRAMBA_River_Bends_Trail_Map_2019-Sep-05.pdf http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/riverbends/CRAMBA_River_B... Print maps are made using osm2ai.pl to get the routes into Adobe Illustrator (AI) format. I then stylize things there. I know I could use GIS software, but QGIS is a pain to get things looking the way I want (similar to Michigan DNR maps) and ArcGIS is too expensive for unpaid volunteer work. It's also way more hand-off-able in AI format; I can send the files to any graphic designer and they can keep-on with it. GIS software requires far more specialized knowledge.

gerbal 6y ago

Anecdotally, in Northern Wisconsin, GMaps is only slightly better than OSM on abandoned logging roads. There are a lot of private gated or abandoned roads and logging tracks which Google Maps will use for route planning.

c0nsumer 6y ago
That's kinda how it is here. The best thing seems to be to bounce between Google Maps and OSM and an aerial view to get a sense of what's up. For an interesting example, check out this place: Google: https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4133003,-87.5248774,5345m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4133003,-87.5248774,5345m/da... OSM: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.4161/-87.5406 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.4161/-87.5406 Neither has the actual current lake boundaries (as used as a retention pond), Google has roads where the lake is while OSM doesn't, etc.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  3dep can be a huge help in figuring out how prominent tree covered roads are. https://elevation.nationalmap.gov/arcgis/rest/services/3DEPElevation/ImageServer https://elevation.nationalmap.gov/arcgis/rest/services/3DEPE... It's listed as a Theme Overlay at https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/services/ https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/services/
  - c0nsumer 6y ago
    Thanks, this is interesting. I checked a few spots and it doesn't seem to be quite helpful for what I'm looking for (seeing if a road has had brush grow back in over it making it impassable) but this would be quite useful for other things.

Doctor_Fegg 6y ago

> Roads in rural areas are a HUGE problem *in the US - it's a TIGER-specific thing (and certainly not exclusive to OSM). It doesn't affect the rest of the world. Interested to learn what you're doing with cycling routes - I've been working on improving cycling directions in the US (for my site, cycle.travel) for a few years.

c0nsumer 6y ago
Yes, the TIGER problem is, but I don't think missing (or wrong due to physical abandonment) is a US-only problem. For cycling stuff I'm mostly ensuring that mountain bike-specific trails are in OSM and properly tagged (eg: highway=path and NOT highway=cycleway as some are wont to do), with appropriate intersection markers, names, etc. My goal is to ensure that these trails are in OSM so they'll flow down to Garmin, Trailforks, Mapbox / Strava, etc. I also use the OSM data, exported to vectors, to make PDF maps to support the local trail advocacy/building org that I'm part of. As examples, check out my edit history: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/c0nsumer/history#map=7/44.608/-85.273 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/c0nsumer/history#map=7/44... Here's examples of the print maps I've made. Versions of these hang at many trailheads in southeast Michigan: 1: http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/stonycreek/CRAMBA_Stony_Creek_07-Jul-2015.pdf http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/stonycreek/CRAMBA_Stony_C... 2: http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/pontiaclake/CRAMBA_Pontiac_Lake_17-Jun-2014.pdf http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/pontiaclake/CRAMBA_Pontia... 3: http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/riverbends/CRAMBA_River_Bends_Trail_Map_2019-Sep-05.pdf http://www.cramba.org/storage/maps/riverbends/CRAMBA_River_B... Print maps are made using osm2ai.pl to get the routes into Adobe Illustrator (AI) format. I then stylize things there. I know I could use GIS software, but QGIS is a pain to get things looking the way I want (similar to Michigan DNR maps) and ArcGIS is too expensive for unpaid volunteer work. It's also way more hand-off-able in AI format; I can send the files to any graphic designer and they can keep-on with it. GIS software requires far more specialized knowledge.