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My take is; there is nothing wrong with looking for this stuff but relying on it is short-sighted. Personal experience of mine is; people who spend a lot of no

My take is; there is nothing wrong with looking for this stuff but relying on it is short-sighted. Personal experience of mine is; people who spend a lot of non-work time on side projects and open source bring a specific energy to their work. What they are usually not good at is turning up for work, getting their head down and diligently burning through some work. Instead they tend to be ideas people and leaders. All organisations need a balance of personality and experience to be effective. So get excited about Bob because he is an Open Source advocate and regular conference speaker. But also get excited about Alice because her experience is right and when she interviews she is dedicated and detail-oriented.

Lammy 6y ago
I know Alice and Bob are mega-classic foo/bar-style example names, but I also feel like it brings an unnecessary implication to use gendered names as examples when talking about hiring.
- dpc_pw 6y ago
  Relax, Bob is transgender. You can't make assumptions like that without asking for pronouns first. Duh. :D
- shadowmore 6y ago
  I can't tell satire from reality anymore.
  - Lammy 6y ago
    I'm being very sincere. It feels out of place here for the masculine example name to be the outgoing FOSS-contributing self-driven one ("ideas people and leaders") and the feminine example name to be the one who is good at showing up on time, keeping her head down, and being told what to do.
    - pluto9 6y ago
      If they were reversed, you could take offense to Alice being the head-in-the-clouds, undisciplined, and unreliable one while Bob is focused, hard-working, and gets the job done. Of course that would be equally silly, because an example is just an example and there's no reason to read this sort of thing into it.
      - mpweiher 6y ago
        "It's you who's drawing all those dirty pictures" The Rorschach Test http://bouldertherapist.com/html/humor/MentalHealthHumor/rorschach.html http://bouldertherapist.com/html/humor/MentalHealthHumor/ror...
      - Lammy 6y ago
        Hey now I didn’t say I was offended, just that it seems out of place in such a context :)
  - mpweiher 6y ago
    Poe's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
- stevula 6y ago
  1. Is the suggestion to use unisex names like Alex and Taylor instead? Do we have to say Candidate A and Candidate B? 2. Did you find Alice was a negative gender stereotype in the post? I actually had the opposite impression: Bob is a free spirit/idealist who can’t focus on his day job but Alice is a practical/good employee who gets stuff done. If the roles had been reversed I think it would have been more likely to raise a flag for me. I can how someone could have the opposite interpretation, that Bob is a thought leader and Alice is a simple worker bee. It seems to depend on the reader's interpretation.
- scpedicini 6y ago
  I know we're all searching for ways to become morally outraged, but it feels like no rational person would draw this conclusion, particularly considering that Alice and Bob were originally created as generic placeholders when discussion cryptography. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
  - Lammy 6y ago
    There's no need to imply I'm morally outraged when I posted this in about as un-outraged a manner possible. It's easy for you or I to think it's ridiculous when we have knowledge of the history of these names as examples throughout computing, but it feels like no rational person could look at them in this context and not think that a person who lacks that background knowledge may draw the wrong conclusion.
dpc_pw 6y ago
I agree with this one. People that have side projects are generally driven: they are more eager to com up with ideas and are motivated to pursue ideas and projects that they find interesting. Which is great if their ideas are being pursued, and only a distraction if their dayjob needs them to focus on something less exciting or even something they have a distaste for.
workingname 6y ago
I disagree, I think side projects are a sign of being able to put their head down, day in - day out. They have a certain divergent way of thinking that I think might be significantly valuable for companies looking for that type of thinking, especially in a crew of people that don't maintain and assist open source or create their own side-projects. I think this could go either way of course, but it's not a set in stone thing to say side project-people are a 'type.' I will agree with the balance issue, I do think they can tunnel vision, as I'm guilty of it. On trying to create features they feel they need. WTS, I feel strategic in my cause of prioritizing what me and my users could benefit from.

Lammy 6y ago

I know Alice and Bob are mega-classic foo/bar-style example names, but I also feel like it brings an unnecessary implication to use gendered names as examples when talking about hiring.

dpc_pw 6y ago
Relax, Bob is transgender. You can't make assumptions like that without asking for pronouns first. Duh. :D
shadowmore 6y ago
I can't tell satire from reality anymore.
- Lammy 6y ago
  I'm being very sincere. It feels out of place here for the masculine example name to be the outgoing FOSS-contributing self-driven one ("ideas people and leaders") and the feminine example name to be the one who is good at showing up on time, keeping her head down, and being told what to do.
  - pluto9 6y ago
    If they were reversed, you could take offense to Alice being the head-in-the-clouds, undisciplined, and unreliable one while Bob is focused, hard-working, and gets the job done. Of course that would be equally silly, because an example is just an example and there's no reason to read this sort of thing into it.
    - mpweiher 6y ago
      "It's you who's drawing all those dirty pictures" The Rorschach Test http://bouldertherapist.com/html/humor/MentalHealthHumor/rorschach.html http://bouldertherapist.com/html/humor/MentalHealthHumor/ror...
    - Lammy 6y ago
      Hey now I didn’t say I was offended, just that it seems out of place in such a context :)
- mpweiher 6y ago
  Poe's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
stevula 6y ago
1. Is the suggestion to use unisex names like Alex and Taylor instead? Do we have to say Candidate A and Candidate B? 2. Did you find Alice was a negative gender stereotype in the post? I actually had the opposite impression: Bob is a free spirit/idealist who can’t focus on his day job but Alice is a practical/good employee who gets stuff done. If the roles had been reversed I think it would have been more likely to raise a flag for me. I can how someone could have the opposite interpretation, that Bob is a thought leader and Alice is a simple worker bee. It seems to depend on the reader's interpretation.
scpedicini 6y ago
I know we're all searching for ways to become morally outraged, but it feels like no rational person would draw this conclusion, particularly considering that Alice and Bob were originally created as generic placeholders when discussion cryptography. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
- Lammy 6y ago
  There's no need to imply I'm morally outraged when I posted this in about as un-outraged a manner possible. It's easy for you or I to think it's ridiculous when we have knowledge of the history of these names as examples throughout computing, but it feels like no rational person could look at them in this context and not think that a person who lacks that background knowledge may draw the wrong conclusion.

dpc_pw 6y ago

I agree with this one. People that have side projects are generally driven: they are more eager to com up with ideas and are motivated to pursue ideas and projects that they find interesting. Which is great if their ideas are being pursued, and only a distraction if their dayjob needs them to focus on something less exciting or even something they have a distaste for.

workingname 6y ago

I disagree, I think side projects are a sign of being able to put their head down, day in - day out. They have a certain divergent way of thinking that I think might be significantly valuable for companies looking for that type of thinking, especially in a crew of people that don't maintain and assist open source or create their own side-projects. I think this could go either way of course, but it's not a set in stone thing to say side project-people are a 'type.' I will agree with the balance issue, I do think they can tunnel vision, as I'm guilty of it. On trying to create features they feel they need. WTS, I feel strategic in my cause of prioritizing what me and my users could benefit from.