5 ms·

(I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, just a forum conversation where I tell what I believe: "as far as I know", etc.) What country is this? Here in Fr

(I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, just a forum conversation where I tell what I believe: "as far as I know", etc.) What country is this? Here in France, your employer may only complain if they can argue that your activity causes them harm. Side projects, even when benefiting from your work experience, should, as far as I know, be okay.

shmel 6y ago
It is the UK. I know that probably in some jurisdictions some of these clauses are unenforceable. I just don't want to step in a legal mess. I know a friend of mine (in France btw) had to argue with his company about this even though he obtained a verbal agreement beforehand. It is just that he was about to quit and the employer decided to fuck with him as much as possible.
- cnity 6y ago
  Are you sure? The line "in the course of your employment" is often misinterpreted to mean "while hired here". In fact it means something like "while doing something that is specifically required to do your job properly"[0] [0]: Australian site, but relevant: https://www.business.qld.gov.au/running-business/protecting-business/ip-kit/browse-ip-topics/ownership-of-intellectual-property-created-by-your-employees-and-contractors-or-consultants/ownership#:~:text=As%20a%20general%20rule%2C%20an,the%20employee%2C%20not%20the%20employer https://www.business.qld.gov.au/running-business/protecting-....
  - shmel 6y ago
    yes. My contract clarifies clearly "whether or not during working hours, whether or not using company's equipment". It could be difficult to enforce, but I wouldn't want to check.
    - cnity 6y ago
      Yes, but does it say "in the course of your employment"? The "whether or not during working hours/using company's equipment" part just covers the case where you are working late, etc. If your contract contains the phrase "in the course of your employment", then you can still work on a hobby project and it remains yours, because you didn't work on the hobby project "in the course of your employment" (you were not asked to build the hobby project)
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  Pretty much every jurisdiction will have some law about this. A lot of labour law is derived from "Master and Servant" Laws.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  (not legal advice but) I am pretty sure that employment contract 'IP clauses' in the UK can only capture provisions within your employee 'duties'. So if for example you work in R&D for a trading algo fin-tech company, the company has no say in any 'Image Processing' IP you produce out-of-office if you wanted to contribute to ffmpeg or similar projects.
  - gryn 6y ago
    In France at least, that point is kinda moot. most of the companies hiring (SSIIs) are contracting body shops that have no specific specialization, so the company's field of work is just 'engineering' or IT / computer science.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
I have a friend working in France for a software company and his contract does have something along the lines of "everything you do belongs to us". He's not big on side projects so he never gave it much thought, but I really wonder how enforceable this would be in court.
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  If you can afford the lawyers.
  - vladvasiliu 6y ago
    I think that's the whole point of those clauses: scare the people. In France, from what I understand, there's a special court for employment issues. I'm not sure if you need a lawyer for those, but it's supposed to be easy to take your employer to this court. However, even so, except in case of something pretty extreme, I'd prefer not having to deal with that. But then I guess this could be used a signal that the company is into playing games and maybe look elsewhere. Especially when they're reassuring orally but wouldn't put any change in writing.
C1sc0cat 6y ago
The rule of thumb that if your side project is "related" to your employers work - its theirs - the problem is can you afford the layers to assert that right. For example If you are an semipro musician and you wrote your countries Eurovision entry they would have no claim on that.

shmel 6y ago

It is the UK. I know that probably in some jurisdictions some of these clauses are unenforceable. I just don't want to step in a legal mess. I know a friend of mine (in France btw) had to argue with his company about this even though he obtained a verbal agreement beforehand. It is just that he was about to quit and the employer decided to fuck with him as much as possible.

cnity 6y ago
Are you sure? The line "in the course of your employment" is often misinterpreted to mean "while hired here". In fact it means something like "while doing something that is specifically required to do your job properly"[0] [0]: Australian site, but relevant: https://www.business.qld.gov.au/running-business/protecting-business/ip-kit/browse-ip-topics/ownership-of-intellectual-property-created-by-your-employees-and-contractors-or-consultants/ownership#:~:text=As%20a%20general%20rule%2C%20an,the%20employee%2C%20not%20the%20employer https://www.business.qld.gov.au/running-business/protecting-....
- shmel 6y ago
  yes. My contract clarifies clearly "whether or not during working hours, whether or not using company's equipment". It could be difficult to enforce, but I wouldn't want to check.
  - cnity 6y ago
    Yes, but does it say "in the course of your employment"? The "whether or not during working hours/using company's equipment" part just covers the case where you are working late, etc. If your contract contains the phrase "in the course of your employment", then you can still work on a hobby project and it remains yours, because you didn't work on the hobby project "in the course of your employment" (you were not asked to build the hobby project)
C1sc0cat 6y ago
Pretty much every jurisdiction will have some law about this. A lot of labour law is derived from "Master and Servant" Laws.
DoingIsLearning 6y ago
(not legal advice but) I am pretty sure that employment contract 'IP clauses' in the UK can only capture provisions within your employee 'duties'. So if for example you work in R&D for a trading algo fin-tech company, the company has no say in any 'Image Processing' IP you produce out-of-office if you wanted to contribute to ffmpeg or similar projects.
- gryn 6y ago
  In France at least, that point is kinda moot. most of the companies hiring (SSIIs) are contracting body shops that have no specific specialization, so the company's field of work is just 'engineering' or IT / computer science.

vladvasiliu 6y ago

I have a friend working in France for a software company and his contract does have something along the lines of "everything you do belongs to us". He's not big on side projects so he never gave it much thought, but I really wonder how enforceable this would be in court.

C1sc0cat 6y ago
If you can afford the lawyers.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  I think that's the whole point of those clauses: scare the people. In France, from what I understand, there's a special court for employment issues. I'm not sure if you need a lawyer for those, but it's supposed to be easy to take your employer to this court. However, even so, except in case of something pretty extreme, I'd prefer not having to deal with that. But then I guess this could be used a signal that the company is into playing games and maybe look elsewhere. Especially when they're reassuring orally but wouldn't put any change in writing.

C1sc0cat 6y ago

The rule of thumb that if your side project is "related" to your employers work - its theirs - the problem is can you afford the layers to assert that right. For example If you are an semipro musician and you wrote your countries Eurovision entry they would have no claim on that.