5 ms·

> Srsly, somebody needs to fix this I've lost count of the number of devs I've spoken to, over multiple decades, who are convinced recruitment is ripe for disr

by flir 6y ago

> Srsly, somebody needs to fix this I've lost count of the number of devs I've spoken to, over multiple decades, who are convinced recruitment is ripe for disruption. I'm sure everyone else has the same experience. And yet, recruitment's still here, more or less unchanged. At this point I'm pretty sure recruitment has always been terrible, and will always be terrible. There's some perverse incentive buried deep in the process that can't be shaken out. Or something.

brtkdotse 6y ago
> And yet, recruitment's still here, more or less unchanged. At this point I'm pretty sure recruitment has always been terrible, and will always be terrible. There's some perverse incentive buried deep in the process that can't be shaken out. Or something. It probably won’t be solved by tech folk as it’s a squishy people problem that’s hard to quantify (case in point: threads on HN bemoaning robotic HR processes att FAANG)
- toyg 6y ago
  > it’s a squishy people problem that’s hard to quantify And where incentives to game the process are just too high for everyone involved. Ref standard practices like CV inflation, lying about what the role will really be, hiding salary rates from both sides, manipulating entitlements, etc etc. These problems are as old as humanity and I don't think you can really fix them with code.
sleavey 6y ago
Same problems with the private home rental market. If someone can figure out how to match good tenants with good landlords in a way that is hard to scam and respects privacy, they would make a lot of money.
- jackson1442 6y ago
  It would be nice to have this with payments integrated or something, but the trust aspect is a lot harder to achieve. With a service like Uber/Lyft, you have riders and drivers building a reputation over time as they can make many rides over the course of their use, each one a rateable experience for both parties. For "BetterLandlord," the _ideal_ tenant is one that sticks with one landlord longer. More use of the platform intrinsically leads to a lower incentive to use it. Though I guess you could earn "trust points" for making payments on time, and landlords for fixing maintenance issues submitted within the app in a reasonable amount of time, there's a lot of other factors that count for a "good" tenant or landlord.
- viach 6y ago
  This assumes there is a lot of good players, tenants and landlords and they are just waiting for a good app which will let them find each other finally. From my experience, this market is conflict driven, there is no such thing as good landlord and good tenant.
  - durnygbur 6y ago
    I'm a professional earning 1.5-2.5 the average national salary. I'm moving abroad to a new city and ready to pay 20-30% of my net salary on rent. I'm paying the rent and media regularly on time and the deposit on move in. I demand apartment in the price range 5-15 EUR/m^2 per month, in comfortable standard, and the full deposit back on move out. What invalidates me as a good tenant? Then given my requirements above, each time dealing with rental market in any even marginally desirable city in EU, it's like being hit by a train driving at full speed... Sure it's better to rent short term to some banana youngsters from Germany, Scandinavia or other rich countries, who come over to get wasted and get free sex, then to wreck the place. Yet it's me - a person from post-Communist country, so perceived as poor, who have a bad reputation.
    - seszett 6y ago
      > Yet it's me - a person from post-Communist country, so perceived as poor, who have a bad reputation. Honestly, I have had the same issues as a Frenchman in France, in Canada and in Belgium. I don't think it's really (or not only at least) tied to your country of origin being formerly communist or poor.
    - botwriter 6y ago
      Not sure where you're looking for a property but a lot of eastern Europeans countries are seen as hubs for organised crime. I remember being told by a Bulgarian I used to work with that he tried to avoid other Bulgarians here in the UK because so many were involved in organised crime.
    - viach 6y ago
      > What invalidates me as a good tenant? Nothing, I believe you are a good tenant. But this competitive market with limited resources has "perfect is the enemy of good" situation. Landlords can choose and they want perfect.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  My dad is friends with a a couple of small time landlords and rents two houses himself. They all have stories like this. I was desperate needed to rent the place and the against my better judgement rented to this this family with no nothing. Ten years later they move out and I do the walk through and the place is spotless. Rent another place to two lawyers with spotless credit and references and 18 months later they ghost. Break the locks and go in and.. The roof leaked. For a long time. Moldy sheet rock. Holes in the walls and literal shit ground into the carpets. Good luck with disruption.
wyclif 6y ago
Pretty much share that sense of despair and assessment of the industry. When Aline Lerner started doing things, I was really behind her, hoping she would succeed in changing the game. But I think you're right that it's just a lot harder than even the smartest people realise.

by flir 6y ago

brtkdotse 6y ago

> And yet, recruitment's still here, more or less unchanged. At this point I'm pretty sure recruitment has always been terrible, and will always be terrible. There's some perverse incentive buried deep in the process that can't be shaken out. Or something. It probably won’t be solved by tech folk as it’s a squishy people problem that’s hard to quantify (case in point: threads on HN bemoaning robotic HR processes att FAANG)

toyg 6y ago
> it’s a squishy people problem that’s hard to quantify And where incentives to game the process are just too high for everyone involved. Ref standard practices like CV inflation, lying about what the role will really be, hiding salary rates from both sides, manipulating entitlements, etc etc. These problems are as old as humanity and I don't think you can really fix them with code.

sleavey 6y ago

Same problems with the private home rental market. If someone can figure out how to match good tenants with good landlords in a way that is hard to scam and respects privacy, they would make a lot of money.

jackson1442 6y ago
It would be nice to have this with payments integrated or something, but the trust aspect is a lot harder to achieve. With a service like Uber/Lyft, you have riders and drivers building a reputation over time as they can make many rides over the course of their use, each one a rateable experience for both parties. For "BetterLandlord," the _ideal_ tenant is one that sticks with one landlord longer. More use of the platform intrinsically leads to a lower incentive to use it. Though I guess you could earn "trust points" for making payments on time, and landlords for fixing maintenance issues submitted within the app in a reasonable amount of time, there's a lot of other factors that count for a "good" tenant or landlord.
viach 6y ago
This assumes there is a lot of good players, tenants and landlords and they are just waiting for a good app which will let them find each other finally. From my experience, this market is conflict driven, there is no such thing as good landlord and good tenant.
- durnygbur 6y ago
  I'm a professional earning 1.5-2.5 the average national salary. I'm moving abroad to a new city and ready to pay 20-30% of my net salary on rent. I'm paying the rent and media regularly on time and the deposit on move in. I demand apartment in the price range 5-15 EUR/m^2 per month, in comfortable standard, and the full deposit back on move out. What invalidates me as a good tenant? Then given my requirements above, each time dealing with rental market in any even marginally desirable city in EU, it's like being hit by a train driving at full speed... Sure it's better to rent short term to some banana youngsters from Germany, Scandinavia or other rich countries, who come over to get wasted and get free sex, then to wreck the place. Yet it's me - a person from post-Communist country, so perceived as poor, who have a bad reputation.
  - seszett 6y ago
    > Yet it's me - a person from post-Communist country, so perceived as poor, who have a bad reputation. Honestly, I have had the same issues as a Frenchman in France, in Canada and in Belgium. I don't think it's really (or not only at least) tied to your country of origin being formerly communist or poor.
  - botwriter 6y ago
    Not sure where you're looking for a property but a lot of eastern Europeans countries are seen as hubs for organised crime. I remember being told by a Bulgarian I used to work with that he tried to avoid other Bulgarians here in the UK because so many were involved in organised crime.
  - viach 6y ago
    > What invalidates me as a good tenant? Nothing, I believe you are a good tenant. But this competitive market with limited resources has "perfect is the enemy of good" situation. Landlords can choose and they want perfect.
Gibbon1 6y ago
My dad is friends with a a couple of small time landlords and rents two houses himself. They all have stories like this. I was desperate needed to rent the place and the against my better judgement rented to this this family with no nothing. Ten years later they move out and I do the walk through and the place is spotless. Rent another place to two lawyers with spotless credit and references and 18 months later they ghost. Break the locks and go in and.. The roof leaked. For a long time. Moldy sheet rock. Holes in the walls and literal shit ground into the carpets. Good luck with disruption.

wyclif 6y ago

Pretty much share that sense of despair and assessment of the industry. When Aline Lerner started doing things, I was really behind her, hoping she would succeed in changing the game. But I think you're right that it's just a lot harder than even the smartest people realise.