5 ms·

Appreciate the article, but a few points I feel are off the mark a bit: > But despite his killer getting fired and arrested, the protests became more violent,

by awb 6y ago

Appreciate the article, but a few points I feel are off the mark a bit: > But despite his killer getting fired and arrested, the protests became more violent, more destructive, and more divisive. A lot of rioting and violence came in the early days, even before the arrest and murder charges. The vast majority of protests were peaceful. And this seems to insinuate that the protesters and rioters were the same people, which I don't think is a widely held belief. And maybe the protests are about more than just the murder of George Floyd... If this was an isolated incident, maybe expectations of a quick return to civility would make sense, but it's almost like people (including white people) are tired of this happening. > If you aren't posting #BLM, you’re racist. If you ARE posting #BLM but you say it in the wrong way, you're racist. If you're white and you're silent, that's violence. If you're white and you're speaking up, you're talking over black voices and only they should be heard. Maybe this is several folks trying to take the culture wheel. The debate is messy right now and that's OK. It's a messy topic and people are tossing out their ideas. If you want to post #BLM great. If you don't that's fine too. I'm glad we're having a conversation about it even if it's just to simply say we're all confused. Props to the author for sharing her views. If folks take issue with what you've said, don't sweat it. And if you're looking for other folks on direction on how to "do it right", you're looking in the wrong direction.

Thorentis 6y ago
> If you want to post #BLM great. If you don't that's fine too. Anecdata: in a company all-hands 2 weeks ago, an employee asked the CEO why the company hadn't yet made a public statement about BLM. The CEO looked visibly agitated, almost fearful, and stumbled through some response that equated to "will we do that by the end of the week". Whether or not the pressure actually exists, people are scared of what will happen if they don't conform. People have been fired over tweets, roasted in the media over not speaking out "when they should", and for things they said 10 years ago. Nobody wants to be on the front page of buzzfeed for being outed "as a racist". There is a collective societal fear that is driving us faster and faster off the PC cliff.
- mike503 6y ago
  This. I sometimes worry about anything I may have said years ago or anything I say now that could be construed as offensive by ... almost anyone at this point. Early on (day after the riots started) I posted an article about a POC business owner’s business being destroyed due to protests (rioting) - I had someone call me gross and “where was your outrage when a Black man was killed by a cop? I didn’t see you post anything then” After that I started having to make a risk analysis before doing anything. At this point you HAVE to say something about everything and cover your bases, or you’re complicit; oddly enough you can say something AGAINST the movement, be called out, and apologize, and that’s acceptable. But trying to stay out of the shitstorm? No, you’re complicit. Say something positive, or say something negative and then retract it. But say something...
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    You always had to do risk analysis when you made any statement in a group of people. Any group of people. You're just realising that, though a much more extreme case than usual.
    - mike503 6y ago
      I’ve always known it, especially since I ran a “kind of popular” chat forum for a while, and trying to please everyone with moderation, etc... as well as having to realize I have to maintain a level of “maturity” in a way... But things have reached epic levels of mob mentality. I could post something about someone raping someone else, completely bogus, and it would spread like wildfire, with people making memes of it who have zero knowledge or context.
  - awb 6y ago
    > I sometimes worry about anything I may have said years ago or anything I say now that could be construed as offensive by ... almost anyone at this point. I hear this complaint a lot and don't quite understand it. I don't think the goal in life is to not offend anyone. Just live your life as best you can and if others get offended that's OK. Learn from it if you want to, if it's nonsense ignore it. If someone injures you, sue them. If someone threatens you call the police. If someone stops being your friend get new friends. People are free to get as offended as they want and you're free to not let it bother you. When there are laws passed that create penalties for offending someone then we have a problem. Until then the outrage about the outrage is just like the outrage itself.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sinker 6y ago
I understand wanting to be charitable towards a good cause, but the current political shift represents an existential danger to our society. I've never cared when right-wing wackjobs hoarded guns. I didn't lose my mind after 9/11, thinking terrorists were going to strike us randomly and frequently. Even after a somber fews days after Trump's election, I could feel things getting back to normal. The far-left radical progressive movement is different and has greater power and momentum than anything we've seen in the past two decades. Aside from destroying the reputations of a few truly bad people, we've seen them attack rational speech, deny biological realities, ingrain the perception of racism into innocuous encounters, unironically apply blatantly racist viewpoints towards white people, denounce any form of logic or reasoning as racism or sexism, and so much more. Your tepid response tells me you're not aware of the scope of this movement. It co-opts the good will of normal people and redirects normal liberal and progressive tendencies into something truly destructive. If you're tuned in to what's happening in universities, companies, workplaces; the pattern is hard to miss. The movement works on forced compliance, humiliation, denouncing logic, attacking perceived racism with actual racism. None of this is right and so many people and companies are going along with it. Most people are taking these movements at face value and want to do the right thing. Companies are pre-emptively capitulating to future demands because it's good for business. If you express nuance you're instantly and overwhelming branded as a racist or sexist. There is no room for thought or reason in this movement unless it points to a narrative that white men are evil oppressors. This isn't really about one man being murdered by a cop anymore, or even about racism in general. It's about a cult of victimization leveraging offense and outrage to oppress anyone who gains a modicum of public success in society, and the justifications by which they're acting defy the bounds of reality. The movement represents a greater risk than racism or sexism, it destroys the individual, eliminates free speech and thought, and coerces normal, kind people to say and do things which go against our most basic intuitions.
- camtarn 6y ago
  "If you express nuance ... There is no room for thought or reason in this movement unless it points to a narrative that white men are evil oppressors." The irony of this juxtaposition - bemoaning lack of nuance, then immediately following it with an utterly un-nuanced broad-brush statement - is quite impressive.

by awb 6y ago

Thorentis 6y ago

> If you want to post #BLM great. If you don't that's fine too. Anecdata: in a company all-hands 2 weeks ago, an employee asked the CEO why the company hadn't yet made a public statement about BLM. The CEO looked visibly agitated, almost fearful, and stumbled through some response that equated to "will we do that by the end of the week". Whether or not the pressure actually exists, people are scared of what will happen if they don't conform. People have been fired over tweets, roasted in the media over not speaking out "when they should", and for things they said 10 years ago. Nobody wants to be on the front page of buzzfeed for being outed "as a racist". There is a collective societal fear that is driving us faster and faster off the PC cliff.

mike503 6y ago
This. I sometimes worry about anything I may have said years ago or anything I say now that could be construed as offensive by ... almost anyone at this point. Early on (day after the riots started) I posted an article about a POC business owner’s business being destroyed due to protests (rioting) - I had someone call me gross and “where was your outrage when a Black man was killed by a cop? I didn’t see you post anything then” After that I started having to make a risk analysis before doing anything. At this point you HAVE to say something about everything and cover your bases, or you’re complicit; oddly enough you can say something AGAINST the movement, be called out, and apologize, and that’s acceptable. But trying to stay out of the shitstorm? No, you’re complicit. Say something positive, or say something negative and then retract it. But say something...
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  You always had to do risk analysis when you made any statement in a group of people. Any group of people. You're just realising that, though a much more extreme case than usual.
  - mike503 6y ago
    I’ve always known it, especially since I ran a “kind of popular” chat forum for a while, and trying to please everyone with moderation, etc... as well as having to realize I have to maintain a level of “maturity” in a way... But things have reached epic levels of mob mentality. I could post something about someone raping someone else, completely bogus, and it would spread like wildfire, with people making memes of it who have zero knowledge or context.
- awb 6y ago
  > I sometimes worry about anything I may have said years ago or anything I say now that could be construed as offensive by ... almost anyone at this point. I hear this complaint a lot and don't quite understand it. I don't think the goal in life is to not offend anyone. Just live your life as best you can and if others get offended that's OK. Learn from it if you want to, if it's nonsense ignore it. If someone injures you, sue them. If someone threatens you call the police. If someone stops being your friend get new friends. People are free to get as offended as they want and you're free to not let it bother you. When there are laws passed that create penalties for offending someone then we have a problem. Until then the outrage about the outrage is just like the outrage itself.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sinker 6y ago

I understand wanting to be charitable towards a good cause, but the current political shift represents an existential danger to our society. I've never cared when right-wing wackjobs hoarded guns. I didn't lose my mind after 9/11, thinking terrorists were going to strike us randomly and frequently. Even after a somber fews days after Trump's election, I could feel things getting back to normal. The far-left radical progressive movement is different and has greater power and momentum than anything we've seen in the past two decades. Aside from destroying the reputations of a few truly bad people, we've seen them attack rational speech, deny biological realities, ingrain the perception of racism into innocuous encounters, unironically apply blatantly racist viewpoints towards white people, denounce any form of logic or reasoning as racism or sexism, and so much more. Your tepid response tells me you're not aware of the scope of this movement. It co-opts the good will of normal people and redirects normal liberal and progressive tendencies into something truly destructive. If you're tuned in to what's happening in universities, companies, workplaces; the pattern is hard to miss. The movement works on forced compliance, humiliation, denouncing logic, attacking perceived racism with actual racism. None of this is right and so many people and companies are going along with it. Most people are taking these movements at face value and want to do the right thing. Companies are pre-emptively capitulating to future demands because it's good for business. If you express nuance you're instantly and overwhelming branded as a racist or sexist. There is no room for thought or reason in this movement unless it points to a narrative that white men are evil oppressors. This isn't really about one man being murdered by a cop anymore, or even about racism in general. It's about a cult of victimization leveraging offense and outrage to oppress anyone who gains a modicum of public success in society, and the justifications by which they're acting defy the bounds of reality. The movement represents a greater risk than racism or sexism, it destroys the individual, eliminates free speech and thought, and coerces normal, kind people to say and do things which go against our most basic intuitions.

camtarn 6y ago
"If you express nuance ... There is no room for thought or reason in this movement unless it points to a narrative that white men are evil oppressors." The irony of this juxtaposition - bemoaning lack of nuance, then immediately following it with an utterly un-nuanced broad-brush statement - is quite impressive.