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The fact that it isn't a symbol of southern heritage for everyone doesn't mean it's not a southern symbol for many. Are you suggesting that African-Americans i

The fact that it isn't a symbol of southern heritage for everyone doesn't mean it's not a southern symbol for many. Are you suggesting that African-Americans identify with the Confederate battle flag...? No, and nothing in my comments suggested that. It makes sense that they wouldn't since their relatives probably didn't after the war. For many people, their relatives did identify with the flag. It probably started as something racist by the survivors of the war, but morphed into what it is today, something that isn't considered racist by most around where I live. Do you really think NASCAR, a big business, would have previously allowed it to be flown if it was universally considered a hate symbol?

pmiller2 6y ago
> The fact that it isn't a symbol of southern heritage for everyone doesn't mean it's not a southern symbol for many. Could that be because there isn't just one type of "southern heritage?" Do you really want to equate the southern heritage of black people in the south with those who fly the Confederate battle flag?
- IncRnd 6y ago
  If you search at images.google.com for "black people confederate flag" without quotes, you will see black people who support the confederate flag. Strangely, that is practically all that is shown for pages. I don't know what all of their reasons are, but they exist and those people have just as much of a right to their beliefs as others have. They are people with their own heritage. One heritage is that some people fought for freedom and the ability to secede, not for slavery.
filleduchaos 6y ago
> It probably started as something racist by the survivors of the war, but morphed into what it is today, something that isn't considered racist by most around where I live. I am saying this as gently as possible: the majority of bigots don't walk around thinking or saying "Wow I sure am a bigot!". They mostly just think of themselves as normal people with normal values. > Do you really think NASCAR, a big business, would have previously allowed it to be flown if it was universally considered a hate symbol? There is a team in the NFL that is named a literal slur against indigenous Americans. I am not quite sure where one would get the idea that the US sports industry is a bastion of sensitivity.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > I am saying this as gently as possible: the majority of bigots don't walk around thinking or saying "Wow I sure am a bigot!". They mostly just think of themselves as normal people with normal values. This argument tends to make me agree with the southerners who want a symbol of their own. Q: What do you get when a San Jose doctor has a Google engineer over to dinner? A: Lively conversation about how stupid everyone is in Alabama. I'm not making that up. Here's the conversation piece (a piece of paper) a family friend brought over for dinner with my parents: M R DOGS A R NOT O S A R C M P L I B M R DOGS As he delighted in explaining to everyone, this is the "Alabama literacy test". You're meant to read it as follows: 'em are dogs 'ey are not oh [y]es 'ey are see 'em pee? [w]ell I be! 'em are dogs! The southerners responding to this sort of sentiment are doing exactly the same thing Mark Knopfler did in Money for Nothing: That little faggot with the earring and the make-up Yeah buddy, that's his own hair That little faggot got his own jet airplane! That little faggot he's a millionaire! The "faggot" in question is of course Mark Knopfler himself, responding to his own haters with an implicit "screw you". Spend enough time telling a group of people that you hate them and everything about them, and they'll start developing cultural elements specifically oriented around flipping you a middle finger. (And for what it's worth, it seems like a safe assumption that the use of the confederate battle flag as a symbol of southern culture derives from its use in that role on The Dukes of Hazzard.)
swayvil 6y ago
Look at those downvotes. The reactionary is strong here.
themacguffinman 6y ago
Slavery was also something that wasn't considered bad by most around where you live. Thankfully, people not around where you live disagreed. "Universally" is just a weasel word. It was started as something racist and still remains incredibly racist to pretty much everyone else, despite doe-eyed claims from southerners who want people to believe that a 5 year long pro-slavery rebellion represents the history and pride of the South.

pmiller2 6y ago

> The fact that it isn't a symbol of southern heritage for everyone doesn't mean it's not a southern symbol for many. Could that be because there isn't just one type of "southern heritage?" Do you really want to equate the southern heritage of black people in the south with those who fly the Confederate battle flag?

IncRnd 6y ago
If you search at images.google.com for "black people confederate flag" without quotes, you will see black people who support the confederate flag. Strangely, that is practically all that is shown for pages. I don't know what all of their reasons are, but they exist and those people have just as much of a right to their beliefs as others have. They are people with their own heritage. One heritage is that some people fought for freedom and the ability to secede, not for slavery.

filleduchaos 6y ago

> It probably started as something racist by the survivors of the war, but morphed into what it is today, something that isn't considered racist by most around where I live. I am saying this as gently as possible: the majority of bigots don't walk around thinking or saying "Wow I sure am a bigot!". They mostly just think of themselves as normal people with normal values. > Do you really think NASCAR, a big business, would have previously allowed it to be flown if it was universally considered a hate symbol? There is a team in the NFL that is named a literal slur against indigenous Americans. I am not quite sure where one would get the idea that the US sports industry is a bastion of sensitivity.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
> I am saying this as gently as possible: the majority of bigots don't walk around thinking or saying "Wow I sure am a bigot!". They mostly just think of themselves as normal people with normal values. This argument tends to make me agree with the southerners who want a symbol of their own. Q: What do you get when a San Jose doctor has a Google engineer over to dinner? A: Lively conversation about how stupid everyone is in Alabama. I'm not making that up. Here's the conversation piece (a piece of paper) a family friend brought over for dinner with my parents: M R DOGS A R NOT O S A R C M P L I B M R DOGS As he delighted in explaining to everyone, this is the "Alabama literacy test". You're meant to read it as follows: 'em are dogs 'ey are not oh [y]es 'ey are see 'em pee? [w]ell I be! 'em are dogs! The southerners responding to this sort of sentiment are doing exactly the same thing Mark Knopfler did in Money for Nothing: That little faggot with the earring and the make-up Yeah buddy, that's his own hair That little faggot got his own jet airplane! That little faggot he's a millionaire! The "faggot" in question is of course Mark Knopfler himself, responding to his own haters with an implicit "screw you". Spend enough time telling a group of people that you hate them and everything about them, and they'll start developing cultural elements specifically oriented around flipping you a middle finger. (And for what it's worth, it seems like a safe assumption that the use of the confederate battle flag as a symbol of southern culture derives from its use in that role on The Dukes of Hazzard.)

swayvil 6y ago

Look at those downvotes. The reactionary is strong here.

themacguffinman 6y ago

Slavery was also something that wasn't considered bad by most around where you live. Thankfully, people not around where you live disagreed. "Universally" is just a weasel word. It was started as something racist and still remains incredibly racist to pretty much everyone else, despite doe-eyed claims from southerners who want people to believe that a 5 year long pro-slavery rebellion represents the history and pride of the South.