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> Almost no one thinks about actively retraining the way they think. In fact, I don’t think this last idea even crosses most of our minds. Really? I'm pretty s

> Almost no one thinks about actively retraining the way they think. In fact, I don’t think this last idea even crosses most of our minds. Really? I'm pretty sure there are thousands of years of philosophical and religious traditions that teach something along the lines of "looking for happiness in the external world is a bad idea, instead try working on yourself". I mean the four noble truths of Buddhism, a religion with roughly 0.5 billion followers, are (paraphrased): 1. There is suffering 2. That suffering is caused by attachment to worldly things 3. The way to get rid of that suffering is to work on not being attached to those things 4. The best way to work on not being attached to those things is, surprise surprise, Buddhism. But this idea seems pretty prevalent in pop-psychology as well. So I'm not sure who the we in "our minds" is, but I think even most instagram celebrates of realized that maybe "self work" is a good idea. Unfortunately there are some philosophers that, in the last 300 years, have started to question whether there is such a clear divide between the external and internal world... but I don't expect most people to spend their time reading a lot of philosophy.

heavenlyblue 6y ago
If you tell yourself that the real world is irrelevant, it makes you more irrelevant in the real world.
- asdff 6y ago
  Do you need to be relevant?
  - Toine 6y ago
    Exactly, most people I know don't want to ask themselves this kind of questions
    - pojzon 6y ago
      Because they feel inner need to be relevant or other way around ?
- coldtea 6y ago
  That doesn't equate to unhappy though... Could be the exact opposite...
leoh 6y ago
A preponderance of religions and philosophies that advocate changing the way one thinks does not mean that most people subscribe to them. Most people are insanely dogmatic including self-described Buddhists (such as those on Myanmar that are cruel to Rohingya), Jews (that abuse Palestinians), Christians (I don't need to describe their flaws), and Muslims. There are tenets of each faith that advocate viewing the world in a more open and relaxed manner. Almost all adherents of these religions and philosophies ignore those parts.
- d0mine 6y ago
  If the default state were to be open and relaxed, then all these religions wouldn't need to mention it.
- whatshisface 6y ago
  >Jews (that abuse Palestinians) I'm not 100% sure that the Jewish religion can be associated with Israeli foreign policy. Israel would be fighting with Palestine whether any Jewish believers lived there or not.
  - throw975 6y ago
    I agree that the claim that All Jews are necessarily Pro-Israel is false. But I don't think that was what the author meant. His claim seemed more like "Israel is a Jewish state, and does misdeeds under that banner", which I don't think anyone would disagree with. https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-n...
    - leoh 6y ago
      Correct. Many Jews disagree with Israel's current relationships — and many early zionists like Herzl would likely disagree too.
agumonkey 6y ago
suffering can be deeper, but that's also probably stepping into psychiatry territory.. my point is you cannot reason or meditate everything away
- programmertote 6y ago
  > you cannot reason or meditate everything away 100% agree. I was born a Buddhist and was a devout Buddhist until I was 13-14 years old (then I became an atheist). I went to monasteries for weeks on end to meditate. But what I found was that meditation is not for me. I cannot get rid of my recurring mental sufferings (anger, fear/anxiety, jealousy/envy, self-/guilt) just by spending more and more time in meditation. One thing that I found extremely useful is stoicism (at least in the way I interpret it). I simply learned to accept that these bad feelings come and go, and that is the nature of being a human. There's nothing wrong with having such bad feelings, which I personally call as 'bad karma'. I just need to be aware of them (which meditation supposedly helps detect, but I find myself being able to do without meditating equally well) and be at peace with the fact that they come and go in my life as a human. What is in my control is how long I dwell on these moments of bad karma. For that, I always try to get myself out of these bad-karmic situations by trying to see things in a bigger picture or in longer term (e.g., 'Well, I am not making as much money as I want to now, but that's okay because even if I don't earn more than what I do now, I can still retire pretty comfortably by living a minimalistic life. Alternatively, I just need to work maybe 2-3 more years with the current income to save up to the level of savings at which I want to retire. In the worst case scenario in which I get sick/disabled, I will just learn to adapt as human beings and other living beings are observed to do in adversity.') Trying to see things from such larger perspective makes me feel pretty content and thus, releases me from a lot of anxiety issues.
  - pdimitar 6y ago
    What did you expect to find in meditation at 13-14 years old though? Hardly any real conflict or hardship in anyone's life at that age. Honest question, not looking to berate you.
    - 6y ago
mtgp1000 6y ago
>Really? I'm pretty sure there are thousands of years of philosophical and religious traditions that teach something along the lines of "looking for happiness in the external world is a bad idea, instead try working on yourself" The author is referring to the common man, whom we in the west have been conditioned to think much more highly of than is evidently deserved. It should not be controversial to say that people by and large are ignorant.
ImaCake 6y ago
> I think even most instagram celebrates of realized that maybe "self work" is a good idea. There is an entire community within instagram that is focused on this. I think they call themselves the "positivity movement". I have a cousin who is heavily involved in it. They mean well but as a skeptical outsider I always find it a bit dogmatic; they tend to focus to much on improving point of view without the concomitant work on the material self.

heavenlyblue 6y ago

If you tell yourself that the real world is irrelevant, it makes you more irrelevant in the real world.

asdff 6y ago
Do you need to be relevant?
- Toine 6y ago
  Exactly, most people I know don't want to ask themselves this kind of questions
  - pojzon 6y ago
    Because they feel inner need to be relevant or other way around ?
coldtea 6y ago
That doesn't equate to unhappy though... Could be the exact opposite...

leoh 6y ago

A preponderance of religions and philosophies that advocate changing the way one thinks does not mean that most people subscribe to them. Most people are insanely dogmatic including self-described Buddhists (such as those on Myanmar that are cruel to Rohingya), Jews (that abuse Palestinians), Christians (I don't need to describe their flaws), and Muslims. There are tenets of each faith that advocate viewing the world in a more open and relaxed manner. Almost all adherents of these religions and philosophies ignore those parts.

d0mine 6y ago
If the default state were to be open and relaxed, then all these religions wouldn't need to mention it.
whatshisface 6y ago
>Jews (that abuse Palestinians) I'm not 100% sure that the Jewish religion can be associated with Israeli foreign policy. Israel would be fighting with Palestine whether any Jewish believers lived there or not.
- throw975 6y ago
  I agree that the claim that All Jews are necessarily Pro-Israel is false. But I don't think that was what the author meant. His claim seemed more like "Israel is a Jewish state, and does misdeeds under that banner", which I don't think anyone would disagree with. https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-n...
  - leoh 6y ago
    Correct. Many Jews disagree with Israel's current relationships — and many early zionists like Herzl would likely disagree too.

agumonkey 6y ago

suffering can be deeper, but that's also probably stepping into psychiatry territory.. my point is you cannot reason or meditate everything away

programmertote 6y ago
> you cannot reason or meditate everything away 100% agree. I was born a Buddhist and was a devout Buddhist until I was 13-14 years old (then I became an atheist). I went to monasteries for weeks on end to meditate. But what I found was that meditation is not for me. I cannot get rid of my recurring mental sufferings (anger, fear/anxiety, jealousy/envy, self-/guilt) just by spending more and more time in meditation. One thing that I found extremely useful is stoicism (at least in the way I interpret it). I simply learned to accept that these bad feelings come and go, and that is the nature of being a human. There's nothing wrong with having such bad feelings, which I personally call as 'bad karma'. I just need to be aware of them (which meditation supposedly helps detect, but I find myself being able to do without meditating equally well) and be at peace with the fact that they come and go in my life as a human. What is in my control is how long I dwell on these moments of bad karma. For that, I always try to get myself out of these bad-karmic situations by trying to see things in a bigger picture or in longer term (e.g., 'Well, I am not making as much money as I want to now, but that's okay because even if I don't earn more than what I do now, I can still retire pretty comfortably by living a minimalistic life. Alternatively, I just need to work maybe 2-3 more years with the current income to save up to the level of savings at which I want to retire. In the worst case scenario in which I get sick/disabled, I will just learn to adapt as human beings and other living beings are observed to do in adversity.') Trying to see things from such larger perspective makes me feel pretty content and thus, releases me from a lot of anxiety issues.
- pdimitar 6y ago
  What did you expect to find in meditation at 13-14 years old though? Hardly any real conflict or hardship in anyone's life at that age. Honest question, not looking to berate you.
  - 6y ago

mtgp1000 6y ago

>Really? I'm pretty sure there are thousands of years of philosophical and religious traditions that teach something along the lines of "looking for happiness in the external world is a bad idea, instead try working on yourself" The author is referring to the common man, whom we in the west have been conditioned to think much more highly of than is evidently deserved. It should not be controversial to say that people by and large are ignorant.

ImaCake 6y ago

> I think even most instagram celebrates of realized that maybe "self work" is a good idea. There is an entire community within instagram that is focused on this. I think they call themselves the "positivity movement". I have a cousin who is heavily involved in it. They mean well but as a skeptical outsider I always find it a bit dogmatic; they tend to focus to much on improving point of view without the concomitant work on the material self.