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Semantic Web[1] reborn (after alleged[2] death)? Also I wonder how helpful Prolog infrastructure could be since they provided some useful frameworks [3][4] for

by xvilka 6y ago

Semantic Web[1] reborn (after alleged[2] death)? Also I wonder how helpful Prolog infrastructure could be since they provided some useful frameworks [3][4] for that. [1] https://www.w3.org/standards/semanticweb/ https://www.w3.org/standards/semanticweb/ [2] https://twobithistory.org/2018/05/27/semantic-web.html https://twobithistory.org/2018/05/27/semantic-web.html [3] https://www.swi-prolog.org/web/ https://www.swi-prolog.org/web/ [4] https://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(%27packages/semweb.html%27) https://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/doc_for?object=section(%27p...

LukeEF 6y ago
The prolog renaissance is unstoppable!
memexy 6y ago
Twobithistory article is pretty good. Outlines several things I wasn't aware of like DBPedia.
YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
>> Also I wonder how helpful Prolog infrastructure could be since they provided some useful frameworks [3][4] for that. That's a good point, because looking at the working paper on the proposed architecture of the project [1], the example of a "constructor" in Figure 1 is basically a set of frames and it has a straightforward translation in Prolog and the example of a "renderer" in English is basically a pattern with holes that also has a very straightforward Prolog implementation via Definite Clause Grammars. In fact the whole architecture reminds me a lot of IBM's Watson - the good bits (i.e. the Prolog stuff they used to store the knowledgebase). ________ [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.04733.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.04733.pdf
- JadeNB 6y ago
  Reminder to link to abstracts, rather than directly to PDF: https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.04733 https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.04733 .
  - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
    Oh, sorry. My bad and thanks for posting the link to the abstract.
  - Ninjaneered 6y ago
    Can you explain why this is preferred? Is it to ensure everyone knows where it comes from (journal or preprint)?
    - JadeNB 6y ago
      For me, at least two reasons: 1. As you say, to see more information about where the paper comes from. 2. It's easy to get from the abstract page to the PDF, but not vice versa. Personally, I also think it's good for people to get into the habit of linking to a text description of data-heavy resources rather than directly to the resources. PDFs aren't that data-heavy, but there are plenty of other things that are that could do with a text landing page, and I think it's good to get in that habit.
      - Ninjaneered 6y ago
        Makes sense, thanks!
tgv 6y ago
That kind of AI has been tried, 30 years ago, and it doesn't go far enough. It's really difficult to get that out of the toy domains.
- d33 6y ago
  A bit changed in AI since 30 years ago. The way we use Internet changed as well. Perhaps if we had a better semantic network and today's algorithms, we could go further?
- harperlee 6y ago
  You could have said exactly the same thing for neural networks...
JimmyRuska 6y ago
We actually looked into SWI prolog semantic web package for corporate work! We ended up finding RDFox ( https://www.oxfordsemantic.tech/ https://www.oxfordsemantic.tech/ ) which is the bleeding edge in research on inference databases and linked data. Unfortunately COVID changed the plans but we were really really impressed with the capabilities. Semantic web is used broadly; Google Structured data you see for reviews and infoboxes, wikidata. Data is broadly available, even if jobs in semantic technologies are not. We're familiar with common databases like key value stores, OLAP, OLTP, but reasoning technology offers unique properties many people aren't aware of. For example you can have your business logic integrated with your database in a way that's much more flexible that stored procedures. You express your business rules as logic programs, the automatically run multi-core, they run as soon as data is inserted into the database and there is no function call; the data does not need to be aware of what logic is in the database, logical rules are applied incrementally so that adding new data or new rules does not trigger re-computation of all the data, business rules can use data produced by other business rules, and finally you use the explain command to get a mathematical proof of why an outcome happened. Reasoning technology may be old but recently this idea of automatically stating things in a declarative form and having the application reconcile the differences has been the differentiating factor for the most popular software out there; kubernetes, teraform, ansible, react, graphql, flutter. Without the declarative reasoning capabilities, these tools may not be considered some of the best. Think postgresql 12 generated columns except infinitely chainable, recursive and connectable to other tables. Think pre-computed materialized views, but automatically updated as new data is inserted (no refresh needed).
- sjnair96 6y ago
  OH MY GOD. Is this jimmyruska of jimmyr.com and those youtube tutorials from way way back? I'm going to get every opportunity I get to tell you this, but you are the reason I'm where I am. I followed you since middle/primary school. Always checked up on you every now and then, and your site[0] is STILL my homepage. In fact I reached this very link from your HN tab (although the link to the HN tab leads to a webarchive). Thank you. This is a little weird, I'm sure, but you're definitely had a tangible and very significant impact on my life! [0] http://www.jimmyr.com http://www.jimmyr.com

by xvilka 6y ago

LukeEF 6y ago

The prolog renaissance is unstoppable!

memexy 6y ago

Twobithistory article is pretty good. Outlines several things I wasn't aware of like DBPedia.

YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago

>> Also I wonder how helpful Prolog infrastructure could be since they provided some useful frameworks [3][4] for that. That's a good point, because looking at the working paper on the proposed architecture of the project [1], the example of a "constructor" in Figure 1 is basically a set of frames and it has a straightforward translation in Prolog and the example of a "renderer" in English is basically a pattern with holes that also has a very straightforward Prolog implementation via Definite Clause Grammars. In fact the whole architecture reminds me a lot of IBM's Watson - the good bits (i.e. the Prolog stuff they used to store the knowledgebase). ________ [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.04733.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2004.04733.pdf

JadeNB 6y ago
Reminder to link to abstracts, rather than directly to PDF: https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.04733 https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.04733 .
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
  Oh, sorry. My bad and thanks for posting the link to the abstract.
- Ninjaneered 6y ago
  Can you explain why this is preferred? Is it to ensure everyone knows where it comes from (journal or preprint)?
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    For me, at least two reasons: 1. As you say, to see more information about where the paper comes from. 2. It's easy to get from the abstract page to the PDF, but not vice versa. Personally, I also think it's good for people to get into the habit of linking to a text description of data-heavy resources rather than directly to the resources. PDFs aren't that data-heavy, but there are plenty of other things that are that could do with a text landing page, and I think it's good to get in that habit.
    - Ninjaneered 6y ago
      Makes sense, thanks!

tgv 6y ago

That kind of AI has been tried, 30 years ago, and it doesn't go far enough. It's really difficult to get that out of the toy domains.

d33 6y ago
A bit changed in AI since 30 years ago. The way we use Internet changed as well. Perhaps if we had a better semantic network and today's algorithms, we could go further?
harperlee 6y ago
You could have said exactly the same thing for neural networks...

JimmyRuska 6y ago

We actually looked into SWI prolog semantic web package for corporate work! We ended up finding RDFox ( https://www.oxfordsemantic.tech/ https://www.oxfordsemantic.tech/ ) which is the bleeding edge in research on inference databases and linked data. Unfortunately COVID changed the plans but we were really really impressed with the capabilities. Semantic web is used broadly; Google Structured data you see for reviews and infoboxes, wikidata. Data is broadly available, even if jobs in semantic technologies are not. We're familiar with common databases like key value stores, OLAP, OLTP, but reasoning technology offers unique properties many people aren't aware of. For example you can have your business logic integrated with your database in a way that's much more flexible that stored procedures. You express your business rules as logic programs, the automatically run multi-core, they run as soon as data is inserted into the database and there is no function call; the data does not need to be aware of what logic is in the database, logical rules are applied incrementally so that adding new data or new rules does not trigger re-computation of all the data, business rules can use data produced by other business rules, and finally you use the explain command to get a mathematical proof of why an outcome happened. Reasoning technology may be old but recently this idea of automatically stating things in a declarative form and having the application reconcile the differences has been the differentiating factor for the most popular software out there; kubernetes, teraform, ansible, react, graphql, flutter. Without the declarative reasoning capabilities, these tools may not be considered some of the best. Think postgresql 12 generated columns except infinitely chainable, recursive and connectable to other tables. Think pre-computed materialized views, but automatically updated as new data is inserted (no refresh needed).

sjnair96 6y ago
OH MY GOD. Is this jimmyruska of jimmyr.com and those youtube tutorials from way way back? I'm going to get every opportunity I get to tell you this, but you are the reason I'm where I am. I followed you since middle/primary school. Always checked up on you every now and then, and your site[0] is STILL my homepage. In fact I reached this very link from your HN tab (although the link to the HN tab leads to a webarchive). Thank you. This is a little weird, I'm sure, but you're definitely had a tangible and very significant impact on my life! [0] http://www.jimmyr.com http://www.jimmyr.com