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> We should really divorce politics from this discussion. that's a common technical people pitfall. politics permeates society, and ignoring it is only to your

> We should really divorce politics from this discussion. that's a common technical people pitfall. politics permeates society, and ignoring it is only to your own detriment exposing you form exploitation of those whom play the political game, of which you most assuredly participate in, whether you want an active role in it or not.

thebean11 6y ago
There's a difference between "let's try to figure out the best way to do something" and "let's sell the solution we've settled on". That's not an argument for avoiding politics, but there's nothing wrong with veering in the other direction either.
- LoSboccacc 6y ago
  once you figure out the best way, you _still_ have to sell it to stakeholders which are each optimizing for different things, some of which you probably don't even known, and that's when the politics kicks in.
robertlagrant 6y ago
> politics permeates society No, it's a pitfall people fall into when they read politics into any topic.
- LoSboccacc 6y ago
  the topic is optimizing an arbitrary metric among a group of people with diverging goals and objectives many of which hidden[1] or with far reaching consequences that are impossible to know fully. that quite literally requires reaching compromises in place of whatever optimal mathematical solution may exists. [1] including people that might want a certain solution to be implemented _and_ fail. they do exist, especially in older groups where the power structure is fragmented and the dynamic dysfunctional.
- egh5oon 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics Politics permeates society, and by design. Also this thread is about employment and moving jobs across countries, which is an extremely politically changed topic.
eldavido 6y ago
Not only does it permeate, but this particular issue touches on a much larger, and more timely discussion: the extent to which companies should be loyal to a nation, and its citizens. In one view, the one I had for a long time, companies are free agents. They can set up where they want, come and go as they please, hire and fire at will. They add value by creating jobs and profit and society should be thankful for that. A different view, one I hear a lot in the more intellectual conservative circles (Brexit and some Trump supporters), is that companies have a duty to their people, and society at large. They should train people (through apprenticeship, rather than strip-mining universities / the local market), try to promote stability, avoid huge disruptive layoffs, etc. I used to think the first but have come around to the second a bit.

thebean11 6y ago

There's a difference between "let's try to figure out the best way to do something" and "let's sell the solution we've settled on". That's not an argument for avoiding politics, but there's nothing wrong with veering in the other direction either.

LoSboccacc 6y ago
once you figure out the best way, you _still_ have to sell it to stakeholders which are each optimizing for different things, some of which you probably don't even known, and that's when the politics kicks in.

robertlagrant 6y ago

> politics permeates society No, it's a pitfall people fall into when they read politics into any topic.

LoSboccacc 6y ago
the topic is optimizing an arbitrary metric among a group of people with diverging goals and objectives many of which hidden[1] or with far reaching consequences that are impossible to know fully. that quite literally requires reaching compromises in place of whatever optimal mathematical solution may exists. [1] including people that might want a certain solution to be implemented _and_ fail. they do exist, especially in older groups where the power structure is fragmented and the dynamic dysfunctional.
egh5oon 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics Politics permeates society, and by design. Also this thread is about employment and moving jobs across countries, which is an extremely politically changed topic.

eldavido 6y ago

Not only does it permeate, but this particular issue touches on a much larger, and more timely discussion: the extent to which companies should be loyal to a nation, and its citizens. In one view, the one I had for a long time, companies are free agents. They can set up where they want, come and go as they please, hire and fire at will. They add value by creating jobs and profit and society should be thankful for that. A different view, one I hear a lot in the more intellectual conservative circles (Brexit and some Trump supporters), is that companies have a duty to their people, and society at large. They should train people (through apprenticeship, rather than strip-mining universities / the local market), try to promote stability, avoid huge disruptive layoffs, etc. I used to think the first but have come around to the second a bit.