5 ms·

Why would criminals use these kinds of apps rather than e.g. Signal?

save_ferris 6y ago
It wasn’t just an app, Encrochat sold a modified android phone that had its camera and GPS physically removed and its custom app pre-installed. Based on the article, Encrochat didn’t sound like a fully legitimate company and may have been run by criminals as well. The part I found interesting is how these vendors often block competitor apps and services from working on their phones, essentially requiring everyone to use the same type of modified phone. This made life a lot easier for investigators once the network was penetrated.
- gruez 6y ago
  >It wasn’t just an app, Encrochat sold a modified android phone that had its camera and GPS physically removed I doubt that provides significant value. Cameras aren't too hard to disable yourself, just use black tape. They probably didn't disable to microphones, which arguably provide at least more valuable information than a camera. They removed the GPS module, but you can probably get the same info with better accuracy by using wifi + cell phone signals. All in all, I think those "features" are just there to make criminals feel better.
  - ponker 6y ago
    But it’s verifiable for your counterparty. If you’re on Encrochat you know that your counterparty has no GPS in their phone.
    - gruez 6y ago
      But what's the threat model here? That your counterparty's phone has been compromised? In that case they can be leaking location through wifi/cell signals as mentioned earlier. There's also nothing preventing the counterparty from carrying a gps-enabled phone with him, which would be trivially linked to his Encrochat phone if he takes them both to the same locations.
wyck 6y ago
Also signal complies with all police and government request, even if it's just meta data "supposedly".
- eitland 6y ago
  > and government request, even if it's just meta data "supposedly". If you have evidence that unencrypted data might be leaked from Signal (except by a rootkit on the phone, tampered update or by someone having physical access to the phone) you might have a real scoop on your hands and you should contact project zero or someone for a bounty and then a journalist so you can bask in the glory. If you don't have anything I suggest abstaining from writing in a way that suggests that until you find something.
gruez 6y ago
signal probably isn't a good example because your identity is tied to your phone number, which can tie back to you unless you're really careful (eg. renting a VOIP number with cryptocurrency over tor).

It wasn’t just an app, Encrochat sold a modified android phone that had its camera and GPS physically removed and its custom app pre-installed. Based on the article, Encrochat didn’t sound like a fully legitimate company and may have been run by criminals as well. The part I found interesting is how these vendors often block competitor apps and services from working on their phones, essentially requiring everyone to use the same type of modified phone. This made life a lot easier for investigators once the network was penetrated.

gruez 6y ago
>It wasn’t just an app, Encrochat sold a modified android phone that had its camera and GPS physically removed I doubt that provides significant value. Cameras aren't too hard to disable yourself, just use black tape. They probably didn't disable to microphones, which arguably provide at least more valuable information than a camera. They removed the GPS module, but you can probably get the same info with better accuracy by using wifi + cell phone signals. All in all, I think those "features" are just there to make criminals feel better.
- ponker 6y ago
  But it’s verifiable for your counterparty. If you’re on Encrochat you know that your counterparty has no GPS in their phone.
  - gruez 6y ago
    But what's the threat model here? That your counterparty's phone has been compromised? In that case they can be leaking location through wifi/cell signals as mentioned earlier. There's also nothing preventing the counterparty from carrying a gps-enabled phone with him, which would be trivially linked to his Encrochat phone if he takes them both to the same locations.

wyck 6y ago

Also signal complies with all police and government request, even if it's just meta data "supposedly".

eitland 6y ago
> and government request, even if it's just meta data "supposedly". If you have evidence that unencrypted data might be leaked from Signal (except by a rootkit on the phone, tampered update or by someone having physical access to the phone) you might have a real scoop on your hands and you should contact project zero or someone for a bounty and then a journalist so you can bask in the glory. If you don't have anything I suggest abstaining from writing in a way that suggests that until you find something.

gruez 6y ago

signal probably isn't a good example because your identity is tied to your phone number, which can tie back to you unless you're really careful (eg. renting a VOIP number with cryptocurrency over tor).