4 ms·

Looks like another episode in the failed war on drugs. While this may look “good” and someone will be able to say “look at those figures” in reality we’re addre

by rxsel 6y ago

Looks like another episode in the failed war on drugs. While this may look “good” and someone will be able to say “look at those figures” in reality we’re addressing a side effect of a much deeper issue.

neilsimp1 6y ago
Am I happy guns are off the streets? Hell yes. Would I be happier with sane drug laws so as to not necessitate a black market? Double hell yes.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Ok. Guns are off the street. It’s not like it’s not easy for criminals to get more guns.
  - red_admiral 6y ago
    In the UK specifically, it's definitely possible to get guns with the right connections, but it's not completely easy.
    - crispyporkbites 6y ago
      In the UK I can pick from 26k guns available here: https://www.guntrader.uk/ https://www.guntrader.uk/
- luckylion 6y ago
  That wouldn't change anything regarding the guns or the amount of crime - career criminals don't do it because they believe in selling drugs, they sell drugs because it's an easy way to make money. In that regard: keeping a black market for drugs may even be a good thing. Otherwise they'd move on to other ventures that might be more harmful, kidnapping, murder for hire etc.
  - yboris 6y ago
    That's a bold claim. Any empirical evidence on your side?
    - luckylion 6y ago
      That career criminals are career criminals, not ideological "prohibition is bad, therefore I sell drugs" hippies? Are you serious?
      - yboris 6y ago
        "career criminal" is begging the question. You claim these people exist, and by definition they are going to continue crime rather than find legitimate ways of making money. Furthermore, you're suggesting that when their way of making money through crime disappears they will migrate towards worse crime. That's a bold claim.
  - asdff 6y ago
    People don't get physically addicted and spend their every last cent on murder for hire after murder for hire. Think of how stupidly lucrative a substance like crack is, it is water to an addict.
praptak 6y ago
One figure I have yet to see reported with such news is the change in the street price of drugs caused by the action. Did they actually throttle the supply? Did it rebound? How quickly? These are the interesting questions yet I don't see them reported.
- rxsel 6y ago
  Prices on the street don't change. Ever. As a result of some hike in price somewhere along the supply chain. What you will see on the street is varying quality but never prices at least in the way we think of price compitition driving prices down. A good book on this is 'Narconomics: How to Run a Drug Cartel' by Tom Wainwright
- asdff 6y ago
  How would you even collect this data? Survey local crackheads? Would you find this reliable?
  - luka-birsa 6y ago
    Probably not so hard to do: - Personal reports from drug users - since the majority of users are recreative users and not hardcore junkies, and even those are just people with various levels of mental issues, I would actually find this reliable. - There are surveys that are taken, at least here in the EU, that track drug usage. - Quality sampling of confiscated drugs - Analysis of medical data (deaths, overdoses,...) - Analysis of police data (crimes related to drug usage) A lot of data out there.
melenaboija 6y ago
Looks like another episode of how democratic systems try to solve one of the many problems they have. And in fact, in this case and from this prospective, successfully. I am not positioning myself here, but I would say if this was a "failed war" on drugs things would be different. Just take a look on how things look like in some regions of Central America.
- rxsel 6y ago
  It's all tied together. You can't compare the literal banana republics of Central America (one of which I was birthed in, not that that matters) to the money printing machine that is the US. The point is, that developed contries are failing just as miserably to tackle the root problems at hand. Yes stopping crime is always great, but is playing cops and robbers really the best approach? For anyone interested, a show recommendation: The Wire by David Simon
  - melenaboija 6y ago
    I guess what I was trying to say is that within the existing western countries rules (good or bad depending on personal opinions) this does not sound to me as a failure

by rxsel 6y ago

neilsimp1 6y ago

Am I happy guns are off the streets? Hell yes. Would I be happier with sane drug laws so as to not necessitate a black market? Double hell yes.

scarface74 6y ago
Ok. Guns are off the street. It’s not like it’s not easy for criminals to get more guns.
- red_admiral 6y ago
  In the UK specifically, it's definitely possible to get guns with the right connections, but it's not completely easy.
  - crispyporkbites 6y ago
    In the UK I can pick from 26k guns available here: https://www.guntrader.uk/ https://www.guntrader.uk/
luckylion 6y ago
That wouldn't change anything regarding the guns or the amount of crime - career criminals don't do it because they believe in selling drugs, they sell drugs because it's an easy way to make money. In that regard: keeping a black market for drugs may even be a good thing. Otherwise they'd move on to other ventures that might be more harmful, kidnapping, murder for hire etc.
- yboris 6y ago
  That's a bold claim. Any empirical evidence on your side?
  - luckylion 6y ago
    That career criminals are career criminals, not ideological "prohibition is bad, therefore I sell drugs" hippies? Are you serious?
    - yboris 6y ago
      "career criminal" is begging the question. You claim these people exist, and by definition they are going to continue crime rather than find legitimate ways of making money. Furthermore, you're suggesting that when their way of making money through crime disappears they will migrate towards worse crime. That's a bold claim.
- asdff 6y ago
  People don't get physically addicted and spend their every last cent on murder for hire after murder for hire. Think of how stupidly lucrative a substance like crack is, it is water to an addict.

praptak 6y ago

One figure I have yet to see reported with such news is the change in the street price of drugs caused by the action. Did they actually throttle the supply? Did it rebound? How quickly? These are the interesting questions yet I don't see them reported.

rxsel 6y ago
Prices on the street don't change. Ever. As a result of some hike in price somewhere along the supply chain. What you will see on the street is varying quality but never prices at least in the way we think of price compitition driving prices down. A good book on this is 'Narconomics: How to Run a Drug Cartel' by Tom Wainwright
asdff 6y ago
How would you even collect this data? Survey local crackheads? Would you find this reliable?
- luka-birsa 6y ago
  Probably not so hard to do: - Personal reports from drug users - since the majority of users are recreative users and not hardcore junkies, and even those are just people with various levels of mental issues, I would actually find this reliable. - There are surveys that are taken, at least here in the EU, that track drug usage. - Quality sampling of confiscated drugs - Analysis of medical data (deaths, overdoses,...) - Analysis of police data (crimes related to drug usage) A lot of data out there.

melenaboija 6y ago

Looks like another episode of how democratic systems try to solve one of the many problems they have. And in fact, in this case and from this prospective, successfully. I am not positioning myself here, but I would say if this was a "failed war" on drugs things would be different. Just take a look on how things look like in some regions of Central America.

rxsel 6y ago
It's all tied together. You can't compare the literal banana republics of Central America (one of which I was birthed in, not that that matters) to the money printing machine that is the US. The point is, that developed contries are failing just as miserably to tackle the root problems at hand. Yes stopping crime is always great, but is playing cops and robbers really the best approach? For anyone interested, a show recommendation: The Wire by David Simon
- melenaboija 6y ago
  I guess what I was trying to say is that within the existing western countries rules (good or bad depending on personal opinions) this does not sound to me as a failure