2 ms·

You cannot raise a child on $10 an hour. One might argue then that that person should not have a child, but very often those arguing that are also advocating fo

You cannot raise a child on $10 an hour. One might argue then that that person should not have a child, but very often those arguing that are also advocating for a reduction in birth control and against the raising of the minimum wage. Continuing with the French comparison, in France if you have a child you get 16 weeks of maternity leave as well as an 'allowance equal to their average income over the three months preceding the birth'. In France, 80% of childcare is generally covered, in the US its very expensive unless you have a relative that lives nearby that can watch your child. So while you are indeed correct, it is possible to survive on $10 per hour, many states have a minimum wage under $8.00. On the whole I very much agree with you, but it can get very complicated very quickly.

bhupy 6y ago
> but very often those arguing that are also advocating for a reduction in birth control Okay, but "people often have the wrong basket of opinions" isn't a strong counterargument to the central point being discussed. > against the raising if the minimum wage Raising of the minimum wage comes with price increases, which is a regressive way of guaranteeing a minimum standard of living. Expanding the EITC (or better yet a UBI) allows one to raise a child even if they are earning $10/hour.
folkhack 6y ago
Every time that HN gets talking about poverty and how it's easy to "just budget!" my eyes almost roll out of my head because I'm damn-near certain every one of us here is making enough to support ourselves, or is being setup to support ourselves in the future (ie: school). We're so far removed from the actual experience of what it's like to "pull yourself up by the bootstraps". If you've been around extreme poverty you know how expensive it is to be poor... You're talking jobs that demand overtime to keep the position, old cars breaking down every other month, being more prone to health problems, the cost of education, the real cost of debt, lower COL housing and theft, etc etc. I'll argue that those who are advantageous, responsible, and disciplined can absolutely budget/work themselves into a better situation like OP suggests (ABSOLUTELY without children) - but if you've been around poverty (esp. in America) you know that this type of person is the exception and not the rule. Not disagreeing with anyone - just want to point out that most poor people aren't going to be able to get themselves out of that situation with "just budget!" advice when most of them can't do simple math and/or can barely read... let alone delay instant gratification (drugs/alcohol) for long-term prosperity (positive goals/aspirations). I agree with your comment so much. Thank you for pointing out how quickly OP's "just budget!" advice breaks down..!
- wonderwonder 6y ago
  Absolutely. Being poor is very expensive. I make a good salary and have my car paid off, a ~5 year old SUV. Monday I heard a grinding noise and took it in, new radiator belt fan assembly required, $800. That would cripple someone on minimum wage even without the car payment. On top of that I had to drop ~$300 on some new part for my home AC and $1800 on getting trees cut before hurricane season. 2 weeks before I spent $600 after another tree collapsed into the neighbors yard. Home ownership is another dream they try and sell poor people and they don't tell them how incredibly expensive it is. In the US, if you are poor it is very hard to become not poor, the few success stories are by and large the exception to the rule. Most people don't have bootstraps made out of luck and fairy dust. In America the greatest predictor of where you end up is where you start.

bhupy 6y ago

> but very often those arguing that are also advocating for a reduction in birth control Okay, but "people often have the wrong basket of opinions" isn't a strong counterargument to the central point being discussed. > against the raising if the minimum wage Raising of the minimum wage comes with price increases, which is a regressive way of guaranteeing a minimum standard of living. Expanding the EITC (or better yet a UBI) allows one to raise a child even if they are earning $10/hour.

folkhack 6y ago

Every time that HN gets talking about poverty and how it's easy to "just budget!" my eyes almost roll out of my head because I'm damn-near certain every one of us here is making enough to support ourselves, or is being setup to support ourselves in the future (ie: school). We're so far removed from the actual experience of what it's like to "pull yourself up by the bootstraps". If you've been around extreme poverty you know how expensive it is to be poor... You're talking jobs that demand overtime to keep the position, old cars breaking down every other month, being more prone to health problems, the cost of education, the real cost of debt, lower COL housing and theft, etc etc. I'll argue that those who are advantageous, responsible, and disciplined can absolutely budget/work themselves into a better situation like OP suggests (ABSOLUTELY without children) - but if you've been around poverty (esp. in America) you know that this type of person is the exception and not the rule. Not disagreeing with anyone - just want to point out that most poor people aren't going to be able to get themselves out of that situation with "just budget!" advice when most of them can't do simple math and/or can barely read... let alone delay instant gratification (drugs/alcohol) for long-term prosperity (positive goals/aspirations). I agree with your comment so much. Thank you for pointing out how quickly OP's "just budget!" advice breaks down..!

wonderwonder 6y ago
Absolutely. Being poor is very expensive. I make a good salary and have my car paid off, a ~5 year old SUV. Monday I heard a grinding noise and took it in, new radiator belt fan assembly required, $800. That would cripple someone on minimum wage even without the car payment. On top of that I had to drop ~$300 on some new part for my home AC and $1800 on getting trees cut before hurricane season. 2 weeks before I spent $600 after another tree collapsed into the neighbors yard. Home ownership is another dream they try and sell poor people and they don't tell them how incredibly expensive it is. In the US, if you are poor it is very hard to become not poor, the few success stories are by and large the exception to the rule. Most people don't have bootstraps made out of luck and fairy dust. In America the greatest predictor of where you end up is where you start.