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Doesn't it also reduce the incentive to outsource jobs overseas? It's harder for lower-skilled jobs in the US to compete with overseas workers working for less

Doesn't it also reduce the incentive to outsource jobs overseas? It's harder for lower-skilled jobs in the US to compete with overseas workers working for less than minimum wage.

NikkiA 6y ago
If wage is the only cost, sure. But it's not, and hiring a mexican metalworker at $16/hr is still cheaper than hiring an american metalworker at $16/hr
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  But is it cheaper than hiring an American metalworker at $8/hr? It also makes American workers start to ask questions about why it's so much cheaper to pay a Mexican worker "the same amount" and whether or not the things that money buys are worth what it's costing them.
  - NikkiA 6y ago
    The problem is that the $16/hr is an attempt to say 'not mexico!' without being discriminatory, so it doesn't say 'non-US workers at $16/hr' it says, essentially 'workers must be paid $16/hr or more', and the result is you'd have to pay US workers $16/hr to meet the same criteria, or else cars produced 100% in the US would fail to be legal.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      That's assuming corporations are too dumb to figure out how to get their other costs counted as part of the $16/hour. For example, one of the major costs in the US is employer-subsidized health insurance, and employers subsidize it because it's tax advantaged. If they instead paid the employees more only to have the employees use the money to buy health insurance, the employees would pay more taxes. But they could still do it -- pay more and then offer a health plan with no employer subsidy. And then they're paying you "$16/hour" even though you lose half of it to health insurance premiums (and then even more to tax). And if that got people asking why they pay tax on their health insurance when they buy it themselves, or why health insurance costs so much in the US, all the better.
      - thephyber 6y ago
        > And if that got people asking why they pay tax on their health insurance when they buy it themselves, or why health insurance costs so much in the US, all the better. Or it might just lower the compensation package that autoworkers get and make other industries more attractive by comparison. Employees that want to know can already figure out what their employer pays for. Health insurance tax subsidies have massively distorted the health insurance markets for decades and there is more access to this knowledge than ever before, but there have been no major efforts to reform this and sever health insurance from company sponsorship. That said, I think that would be one of the best things we could do to lower health care costs quickly -- force all employers to shift their health insurance to the employees and increase their pay by the cash equivalent.
        AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        > Employees that want to know can already figure out what their employer pays for. That's not how humans work. The fact that information is available on the internet doesn't mean that people are actively going to go out and look it up. But if you send them a huge bill for something every month, they're going to look at it and ask WTF.

Doesn't it also reduce the incentive to outsource jobs overseas? It's harder for lower-skilled jobs in the US to compete with overseas workers working for less than minimum wage.

NikkiA 6y ago

If wage is the only cost, sure. But it's not, and hiring a mexican metalworker at $16/hr is still cheaper than hiring an american metalworker at $16/hr

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
But is it cheaper than hiring an American metalworker at $8/hr? It also makes American workers start to ask questions about why it's so much cheaper to pay a Mexican worker "the same amount" and whether or not the things that money buys are worth what it's costing them.
- NikkiA 6y ago
  The problem is that the $16/hr is an attempt to say 'not mexico!' without being discriminatory, so it doesn't say 'non-US workers at $16/hr' it says, essentially 'workers must be paid $16/hr or more', and the result is you'd have to pay US workers $16/hr to meet the same criteria, or else cars produced 100% in the US would fail to be legal.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    That's assuming corporations are too dumb to figure out how to get their other costs counted as part of the $16/hour. For example, one of the major costs in the US is employer-subsidized health insurance, and employers subsidize it because it's tax advantaged. If they instead paid the employees more only to have the employees use the money to buy health insurance, the employees would pay more taxes. But they could still do it -- pay more and then offer a health plan with no employer subsidy. And then they're paying you "$16/hour" even though you lose half of it to health insurance premiums (and then even more to tax). And if that got people asking why they pay tax on their health insurance when they buy it themselves, or why health insurance costs so much in the US, all the better.
    - thephyber 6y ago
      > And if that got people asking why they pay tax on their health insurance when they buy it themselves, or why health insurance costs so much in the US, all the better. Or it might just lower the compensation package that autoworkers get and make other industries more attractive by comparison. Employees that want to know can already figure out what their employer pays for. Health insurance tax subsidies have massively distorted the health insurance markets for decades and there is more access to this knowledge than ever before, but there have been no major efforts to reform this and sever health insurance from company sponsorship. That said, I think that would be one of the best things we could do to lower health care costs quickly -- force all employers to shift their health insurance to the employees and increase their pay by the cash equivalent.
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        > Employees that want to know can already figure out what their employer pays for. That's not how humans work. The fact that information is available on the internet doesn't mean that people are actively going to go out and look it up. But if you send them a huge bill for something every month, they're going to look at it and ask WTF.