11 ms·

The problem with RVs (as someone who spent most of last year on the road living in one) is that they are built like garbage, with the poorest quality materials

by voisin 6y ago

The problem with RVs (as someone who spent most of last year on the road living in one) is that they are built like garbage, with the poorest quality materials and zero innovation. It is clear that no one has shaken up that industry in decades and the incumbents are lazy. The distribution chain has fat profits for everyone. Huge opportunity for someone to disrupt.

SigmundA 6y ago
I agree, but a lot of enjoyment can still be had with one. My Winnebago cost about as much as a Model X but the places I have gone, the things I have seen... Its actually very hard to travel by normal car or air now, we just like taking the RV, the space, bathroom and kitchen while driving down the road, our own bed... You really do need to be handy to own one at this point, it's like a 70's American car. Well the engine and transmission and chassis is fine but everything around it, wow. Luckily it is easy to work on and modify. I have thought long and hard about trying to start a "Toyota of RVs", I think if you could make a solid, simple well made RV you could dominate the market.
- datavirtue 6y ago
  People make them. They are $400k used.
- troydavis 6y ago
  The closest to a “Toyota of RVs” is probably the Erwin Hymer Group, which is expected to finally - after 5+ years of false starts - bring some products to the US in the next 2-3 years: https://newatlas.com/automotive/hymer-usa-european-designed-campers-us/ https://newatlas.com/automotive/hymer-usa-european-designed-... (Many in the US have never heard of Hymer even though they’re huge in Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymer. They’re now owned by Thor, which owns Airstream, Jayco, and many other RV companies: https://www.thorindustries.com/brands https://www.thorindustries.com/brands)
  - ngcc_hk 6y ago
    Good to investigate in uk
  - SigmundA 6y ago
    Hymer North America went bankrupt due various finial "irregularities". I believe what was left was bought by Thor. Left a lot of people out in the cold on warranties from my understanding. If you want quality look at https://advanced-rv.com https://advanced-rv.com, not cheap.
    - troydavis 6y ago
      Thor planned to acquire Hymer Europe and NA, but discovered the fraud during due diligence and elected not to acquire the NA business (a lot of which was Roadtrek). Thor/Hymer Europe has formed a new US entity for new products. Most of the high-volume brands are a notch down from there. I agree about Advanced. A notch down would be Safari Condo’s XL Flex and Leisure Travel Vans.
- smabie 6y ago
  Do you think you're missing something by not being "part" of the environment while driving? As in, you drive through instead of "drive in"? I only drive with the windows down because I want to be a part of the landscape I'm in. I think a motorcycle is the ultimate crystallization of that. On the hand, if it convincs you make trips you otherwise wouldn't have made, I think it's a win. I love Road tripping because it forces you to deal with stuff, especially if you're doing it in less developed countries. Probably the most fun I've ever had is driving long distance in Africa. You really never know what's going to happen next!
  - ramraj07 6y ago
    Never understood this fascination with "crapping in the woods" so to speak. We have evolved past not having to do that yet some want to find their way back to the same old for some reason. In the end, this seems like different goals - some just want to enjoy nature but not live in any delusion that we need to be more paleolithic to have the most authentic experience, others crave this process more than the end location. I identify more with the former group, and an RV sounds like a better bet for people like that. I would be curious to know which is the least destructive to the places been to and the environment though. If the RV is worse, maybe that's one argument. But I'm not sure that makes sense - someone who stays in the hotel might end up costing more in resources maybe?
    - smabie 6y ago
      I'm not talking about capping in the woods, just needing other people for things is a great way to experience the world: having to go to a restaurant or store to get food, go to a motel to sleep, etc. Like poor neighborhoods have so much more community than rich ones because people genuinely need each other to get by. When you're completely independent and don't need anyone, I think you've lost one of the things that gives life its value.
      - ramraj07 6y ago
        That's fair, but I would wager that countries where RVs make sense (US mainly) is a disjoint set from countries where you have a rich community that's also affordable. If I'm traveling the states by a motorcycle or car I'm stuck with having my meals often at a subway and staying in a super 8 (assuming you're middle class).
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  I have a 20 year old conversion van. Lot of space if just two people. And you get a good bed and not have to deal with sleeping on the ground or tents. Have a secondary battery which runs an Engel cooler and a small microwave. Downside: No bathroom, shower, stove, etc. Upside: No plumbing to maintain. Lot smaller than an RV.
- jacobush 6y ago
  C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate?
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    I don't think so. More like the "Weltraumputze" [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm3577194497 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm357719449... at [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm3946293249 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm394629324... from there [3] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm2855774209 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm285577420... or there [4] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer /rm3862407169 Right? [5] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm1505431040 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm150543104...
m463 6y ago
You get what you pay for. Class A diesel RVs are designed for retired couples to drive around the country and live quite well. They plummet in price the first few years and if you're past 10 years old (usually harder to get a loan), the price drops more, often to 25% or less of the new price. They have pretty beefy systems, with 7kw diesel generators quite common. The engine and chassis will be designed to flat tow a car (or a huge trailer). And some have pretty interesting features, like tile floors, two bathrooms, in-floor heating, two bathrooms and washer/dryers. but yeah, choose a good brand.
- SigmundA 6y ago
  Yeah sorta, its amazing how bad the QA is even on expensive motorhomes. If you are used to buying a reliable modern car you will be in for a shock when purchasing even a high end RV when it comes to the quality and integration.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    Yeah, one of my friends just bought a brand new RV (I don't know the details), but spent basically a month after purchase getting a whole bunch of QA fixes made, from the minor and cosmetic to fairly major.
  - Johnny555 6y ago
    Get a class C that's built on an off the shelf truck chassis (usually Mercedes Sprinter or Ford E-350/450) and at least the chassis will be reliable. You'll still have to deal with problems with the RV parts but at least you'll be able to drive it (unless your problem is that the slide-out won't retract)
    - voisin 6y ago
      I agree with this statement and I should have been clearer previously. When I complain about build quality and lack of innovation, it is solely with respect to what the RV assembler does with the Mercedes or Ford chassis.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
They're built like crap because they have to be lightweight and affordable.
- voisin 6y ago
  They are not lightweight. In the case of many Class C motorhomes build on the Ford E chassis, the manufacturer has used plywood for everything. There are certainly opportunities to build with marginally more expensive materials to make major weight gains.
  - pastrami_panda 6y ago
    For the uninitiated, what materials are we talking about here?
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      The plywood mentioned by GP is kind of heavy, and it needs framing for stiffness too. The molded steel used in "real" cars and trucks would be lighter. So would something handmade from carbon. Just thinking by analogy with boat hulls, I don't see why fiberglass wouldn't work either. My parents have a pickup camper the walls of which are made from Styrofoam or something similar. This seems to work; I can climb on the roof to adjust the antenna and I'm fat.

by voisin 6y ago

SigmundA 6y ago

I agree, but a lot of enjoyment can still be had with one. My Winnebago cost about as much as a Model X but the places I have gone, the things I have seen... Its actually very hard to travel by normal car or air now, we just like taking the RV, the space, bathroom and kitchen while driving down the road, our own bed... You really do need to be handy to own one at this point, it's like a 70's American car. Well the engine and transmission and chassis is fine but everything around it, wow. Luckily it is easy to work on and modify. I have thought long and hard about trying to start a "Toyota of RVs", I think if you could make a solid, simple well made RV you could dominate the market.

datavirtue 6y ago
People make them. They are $400k used.
troydavis 6y ago
The closest to a “Toyota of RVs” is probably the Erwin Hymer Group, which is expected to finally - after 5+ years of false starts - bring some products to the US in the next 2-3 years: https://newatlas.com/automotive/hymer-usa-european-designed-campers-us/ https://newatlas.com/automotive/hymer-usa-european-designed-... (Many in the US have never heard of Hymer even though they’re huge in Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymer. They’re now owned by Thor, which owns Airstream, Jayco, and many other RV companies: https://www.thorindustries.com/brands https://www.thorindustries.com/brands)
- ngcc_hk 6y ago
  Good to investigate in uk
- SigmundA 6y ago
  Hymer North America went bankrupt due various finial "irregularities". I believe what was left was bought by Thor. Left a lot of people out in the cold on warranties from my understanding. If you want quality look at https://advanced-rv.com https://advanced-rv.com, not cheap.
  - troydavis 6y ago
    Thor planned to acquire Hymer Europe and NA, but discovered the fraud during due diligence and elected not to acquire the NA business (a lot of which was Roadtrek). Thor/Hymer Europe has formed a new US entity for new products. Most of the high-volume brands are a notch down from there. I agree about Advanced. A notch down would be Safari Condo’s XL Flex and Leisure Travel Vans.
smabie 6y ago
Do you think you're missing something by not being "part" of the environment while driving? As in, you drive through instead of "drive in"? I only drive with the windows down because I want to be a part of the landscape I'm in. I think a motorcycle is the ultimate crystallization of that. On the hand, if it convincs you make trips you otherwise wouldn't have made, I think it's a win. I love Road tripping because it forces you to deal with stuff, especially if you're doing it in less developed countries. Probably the most fun I've ever had is driving long distance in Africa. You really never know what's going to happen next!
- ramraj07 6y ago
  Never understood this fascination with "crapping in the woods" so to speak. We have evolved past not having to do that yet some want to find their way back to the same old for some reason. In the end, this seems like different goals - some just want to enjoy nature but not live in any delusion that we need to be more paleolithic to have the most authentic experience, others crave this process more than the end location. I identify more with the former group, and an RV sounds like a better bet for people like that. I would be curious to know which is the least destructive to the places been to and the environment though. If the RV is worse, maybe that's one argument. But I'm not sure that makes sense - someone who stays in the hotel might end up costing more in resources maybe?
  - smabie 6y ago
    I'm not talking about capping in the woods, just needing other people for things is a great way to experience the world: having to go to a restaurant or store to get food, go to a motel to sleep, etc. Like poor neighborhoods have so much more community than rich ones because people genuinely need each other to get by. When you're completely independent and don't need anyone, I think you've lost one of the things that gives life its value.
    - ramraj07 6y ago
      That's fair, but I would wager that countries where RVs make sense (US mainly) is a disjoint set from countries where you have a rich community that's also affordable. If I'm traveling the states by a motorcycle or car I'm stuck with having my meals often at a subway and staying in a super 8 (assuming you're middle class).
Gibbon1 6y ago
I have a 20 year old conversion van. Lot of space if just two people. And you get a good bed and not have to deal with sleeping on the ground or tents. Have a secondary battery which runs an Engel cooler and a small microwave. Downside: No bathroom, shower, stove, etc. Upside: No plumbing to maintain. Lot smaller than an RV.
jacobush 6y ago
C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate?
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  I don't think so. More like the "Weltraumputze" [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm3577194497 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm357719449... at [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm3946293249 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm394629324... from there [3] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm2855774209 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm285577420... or there [4] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer /rm3862407169 Right? [5] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm1505431040 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm150543104...

m463 6y ago

You get what you pay for. Class A diesel RVs are designed for retired couples to drive around the country and live quite well. They plummet in price the first few years and if you're past 10 years old (usually harder to get a loan), the price drops more, often to 25% or less of the new price. They have pretty beefy systems, with 7kw diesel generators quite common. The engine and chassis will be designed to flat tow a car (or a huge trailer). And some have pretty interesting features, like tile floors, two bathrooms, in-floor heating, two bathrooms and washer/dryers. but yeah, choose a good brand.

SigmundA 6y ago
Yeah sorta, its amazing how bad the QA is even on expensive motorhomes. If you are used to buying a reliable modern car you will be in for a shock when purchasing even a high end RV when it comes to the quality and integration.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Yeah, one of my friends just bought a brand new RV (I don't know the details), but spent basically a month after purchase getting a whole bunch of QA fixes made, from the minor and cosmetic to fairly major.
- Johnny555 6y ago
  Get a class C that's built on an off the shelf truck chassis (usually Mercedes Sprinter or Ford E-350/450) and at least the chassis will be reliable. You'll still have to deal with problems with the RV parts but at least you'll be able to drive it (unless your problem is that the slide-out won't retract)
  - voisin 6y ago
    I agree with this statement and I should have been clearer previously. When I complain about build quality and lack of innovation, it is solely with respect to what the RV assembler does with the Mercedes or Ford chassis.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

They're built like crap because they have to be lightweight and affordable.

voisin 6y ago
They are not lightweight. In the case of many Class C motorhomes build on the Ford E chassis, the manufacturer has used plywood for everything. There are certainly opportunities to build with marginally more expensive materials to make major weight gains.
- pastrami_panda 6y ago
  For the uninitiated, what materials are we talking about here?
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    The plywood mentioned by GP is kind of heavy, and it needs framing for stiffness too. The molded steel used in "real" cars and trucks would be lighter. So would something handmade from carbon. Just thinking by analogy with boat hulls, I don't see why fiberglass wouldn't work either. My parents have a pickup camper the walls of which are made from Styrofoam or something similar. This seems to work; I can climb on the roof to adjust the antenna and I'm fat.