3 ms·

I don't think Apple is intending to cover the "subscription you intend to cancel" case. When you start a free trial for a paid subscription in an iPhone app, yo

by baddox 6y ago

I don't think Apple is intending to cover the "subscription you intend to cancel" case. When you start a free trial for a paid subscription in an iPhone app, you have to do a normal payment authorization which looks almost exactly the same as an instant payment authorization. If you have no intention of paying for a subscription and you don't think you can remember to cancel the subscription before the free trial ends, I think it's pretty reasonable to just not make the upfront payment authorization and thus not use the free trial.

Frost1x 6y ago
That's not the case I was describing. By intend to cancel, I mean during the free trial period. However, how is a "subscription you intend to cancel" case different from a "free trial you decided you didn't like and forgot to cancel" case, as far as paid subscription management? For example, CBS All Access had a free trial a few months back which had Picard on it. The monthly fee was nominal and it looked like they had a few shows I might like so I entered the free trial period. After finishing Picard, I tried a few other offerings from the service during the free trial and realized none of them were to my satisfaction. Therefore, I intended to cancel but forgot. Surprise, next monthly billing cycle I see a charge on my card. So, if the point of the use case of a free trial period is to offer a free trial to evaluate a service and decide if you'd like to continue but prevent you from paying a fee to "test drive," then the upfront payment authorization fails at this for many people who don't instantly cancel the second they decide they don't or may not want the service (but aren't sure yet), or be sure to do so before the free trial ends. All and all, I would argue the up front authorization free trial case often grabs a subset of the free trial accounts into a full cycle of payment. It also likely grabs those less attentive to longer periods of payment for services they're not using. So free trials are often crafted to prey on these situations, which I typically tend to avoid.
- baddox 6y ago
  I guess the idea is that you are supposed to cancel when you decide you want to cancel, rather than trying to be clever and use your entire free trial and then cancel at the last minute.
  - Frost1x 6y ago
    Who says you're trying to be clever? Perhaps you're just busy and have other things to consider? I know I got wrapped up with a few project deadlines for a few weeks and didn't even have time continue exploring shows before canceling. I'd completely forgotten I even had the service. I guess I wasn't being clever enough. It appears more to me like opt-out recurring subscription is actually the model trying to be clever. These practices are largely business friendly, not consumer friendly.
    - baddox 6y ago
      Being too busy to cancel a subscription is a problem that would apply equally to normal subscriptions that start charging you immediately. The only alternative to that would be no recurring automatic payments at all, which is to say, no subscriptions at all. There’s nothing unique about a free trial period in that situation.
      - Frost1x 6y ago
        That's certainly not the only alternative. Another alternative is to allow an opt-in subscription service with a free trial up front that doesn't automatically setup a recurring subscription you have to remove. A lot of services use this model, successfully.
        baddox 6y ago
        Of course that is an option. I just don't think it's the only acceptable option, and I think what Apple does is perfectly acceptable and makes a lot of sense to me. Apple doesn't want its customers to play the game of agreeing to pay for something and then being surprised 7 days later when they are billed because they forgot to cancel.
- bluesign 6y ago
  But here situation is more like: You downloaded CBS All Access, they made you free trial member, you have no idea how much it costs. You may even don't know it costs You started watching Picard etc, 1 week later, when new episode came, you logged in, you saw your trial has ended, subscribe to continue, lets say 20$ / month. Apple is trying to prevent this behaviour, actually in comments one developer explaining they made similar flow.

by baddox 6y ago

Frost1x 6y ago

That's not the case I was describing. By intend to cancel, I mean during the free trial period. However, how is a "subscription you intend to cancel" case different from a "free trial you decided you didn't like and forgot to cancel" case, as far as paid subscription management? For example, CBS All Access had a free trial a few months back which had Picard on it. The monthly fee was nominal and it looked like they had a few shows I might like so I entered the free trial period. After finishing Picard, I tried a few other offerings from the service during the free trial and realized none of them were to my satisfaction. Therefore, I intended to cancel but forgot. Surprise, next monthly billing cycle I see a charge on my card. So, if the point of the use case of a free trial period is to offer a free trial to evaluate a service and decide if you'd like to continue but prevent you from paying a fee to "test drive," then the upfront payment authorization fails at this for many people who don't instantly cancel the second they decide they don't or may not want the service (but aren't sure yet), or be sure to do so before the free trial ends. All and all, I would argue the up front authorization free trial case often grabs a subset of the free trial accounts into a full cycle of payment. It also likely grabs those less attentive to longer periods of payment for services they're not using. So free trials are often crafted to prey on these situations, which I typically tend to avoid.

baddox 6y ago
I guess the idea is that you are supposed to cancel when you decide you want to cancel, rather than trying to be clever and use your entire free trial and then cancel at the last minute.
- Frost1x 6y ago
  Who says you're trying to be clever? Perhaps you're just busy and have other things to consider? I know I got wrapped up with a few project deadlines for a few weeks and didn't even have time continue exploring shows before canceling. I'd completely forgotten I even had the service. I guess I wasn't being clever enough. It appears more to me like opt-out recurring subscription is actually the model trying to be clever. These practices are largely business friendly, not consumer friendly.
  - baddox 6y ago
    Being too busy to cancel a subscription is a problem that would apply equally to normal subscriptions that start charging you immediately. The only alternative to that would be no recurring automatic payments at all, which is to say, no subscriptions at all. There’s nothing unique about a free trial period in that situation.
    - Frost1x 6y ago
      That's certainly not the only alternative. Another alternative is to allow an opt-in subscription service with a free trial up front that doesn't automatically setup a recurring subscription you have to remove. A lot of services use this model, successfully.
      - baddox 6y ago
        Of course that is an option. I just don't think it's the only acceptable option, and I think what Apple does is perfectly acceptable and makes a lot of sense to me. Apple doesn't want its customers to play the game of agreeing to pay for something and then being surprised 7 days later when they are billed because they forgot to cancel.
bluesign 6y ago
But here situation is more like: You downloaded CBS All Access, they made you free trial member, you have no idea how much it costs. You may even don't know it costs You started watching Picard etc, 1 week later, when new episode came, you logged in, you saw your trial has ended, subscribe to continue, lets say 20$ / month. Apple is trying to prevent this behaviour, actually in comments one developer explaining they made similar flow.