5 ms·

Obviously this sucks as a proposal but... how do we stop the child porn?

by chejazi 6y ago

manuelabeledo 6y ago
This sounds like the start of a false dichotomy.
- tzs 6y ago
  Not necessarily. These bad bills keep coming up in an effort to address serious real problems, like child porn. People are going to keep proposing bills to address these problems until something passes. By just concentrating on shooting down bad bill after bad bill without devoting any effort to getting good bills proposed the next bill after each defeated bad bill will be another bill from the same general set of people. Maybe the new one will address some of the issues in the prior ones but the chances are good that it won't address all of them. Just telling everyone else what is wrong with their approach to solving a problem instead of also offering up your own better solutions tends to not work well in the long run.
  - darkarmani 6y ago
    > to address serious real problems, like child porn Can you quantify the size of this problem? It sounds like military defense spending during the cold war. "You just have to take our word for it that child porn is a massive problem affecting 1 out of 4 children, so we need to crush the tech industry."
  - manuelabeledo 6y ago
    > Just telling everyone else what is wrong with their approach to solving a problem instead of also offering up your own better solutions tends to not work well in the long run. How would you think the introduction of a competing bill would fare, if it still needs the support of the first bill proponents? Wouldn't they believe that anything short than the original bill is not worth supporting? I don't think the issue is that there are no better ways to deal with, say, child porn. I do believe that many politicians, if not most, refuse to acknowledge that there are better solutions out there, and for that there are several factors.
  - bcassedy 6y ago
    Child porn is a serious problem in that it is abhorrent. I have not seen any evidence that it is a serious problem in that it has significant impact at a societal level. These bills are not being introduced to significantly reduce child porn. They're meant to further enhance surveillance powers or earn easy political points. Any actual effect on crime is a side benefit. Let's not forget that the same people that propose these bills are the ones hanging out at Epstein's private island.
    - krapp 6y ago
      >I have not seen any evidence that it is a serious problem in that it has significant impact at a societal level. >Let's not forget that the same people that propose these bills are the ones hanging out at Epstein's private island. The implication in the last sentence of your comment would seem to contradict your initial premise.
      - bcassedy 6y ago
        There are only a few hundred people in Congress. Even if all of them were partaking this still wouldn't be a societal impact level issue.
        krapp 6y ago
        Your comment seemed to imply that a network of pedophiles in Congress was tailoring these laws specifically to weaken law enforcement's ability to prosecute people like them. That would certainly lead to a societal impact, as it would by design empower and entrench child pornographers and pedophiles across the board.
        suizi 6y ago
        What if they wanted to deflect attention from themselves to large numbers of relatively minor criminals?
        bcassedy 6y ago
        Ah I see. What I meant to express was that based on the fact that there appears to be a higher preponderance of child abusers among the rich and powerful, it's unlikely that actions they take are actually "to protect the children"
antepodius 6y ago
Have a mandatory bodycam implanted in everyone's right eyesocket, that livestreams to government servers 24/7. This is an obvious short-term mitigation tactic until they develop brain implants that can pre-emptively moderate harmful thoughts.
darkarmani 6y ago
A modest proposal would suggest killing all of the children. What did you have in mind?
orthecreedence 6y ago
Just a thought, but maybe we should arrest people who make child porn.
- DudeInBasement 6y ago
  What about those outside the country?
  - orthecreedence 6y ago
    Why not send a SEAL strike team? It would be cheaper than the overall effect of banning strong encryption.
  - hvis 6y ago
    Why not bomb the shit out of them? Or finally dispense with the desire to police the residents of other countries, and contact the local authorities.
  - suizi 6y ago
    At that point, you're playing world police. Other countries can take care of their own problems.
gspr 6y ago
I don't know. But I do know that it's not a technology problem.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
analyte123 6y ago
Serious answer: - Undercover police work and informants, which is how most large busts already happen now. The worst offenders are not swapping child porn on Facebook or Dropbox - Encourage marriage and remove benefits penalties for two-parent households, as children are substantially more likely to be abused when their biological father is not in the household - Institute the death penalty for child sexual abuse and make sure it is performed swiftly and publicly
zelly 6y ago
Make possession carry the death penalty. Before you think that's too harsh, consider that the other options are to ban encryption or to not try to stop it at all (quasi-decriminalization). I don't think anyone would oppose a bill to make CP carry the death penalty. The problem is they won't ever make this law because then they won't be able to milk the cow anymore.
suizi 6y ago
I don't think it is the real problem. It is a problem in the sense that it is disgusting but it isn't worth destroying a free society over and I don't think it is possible to stop. What you can crackdown on are the producers. You can infiltrate the places where it is originally disseminated. You can run face and voice recognition on the content. You can flip lower level mass distributors into informants to gather evidence on the producers. For rapists. You can train teachers and counsellors to identify children who have been abused and to handle other psychological problems like depression which are endemic in our society. You can train police officers to better spot criminals on a basis other than race or status. You can better fund the CPS. You can conduct assessments on parents who appear to be mentally unstable.

Obviously this sucks as a proposal but... how do we stop the child porn?

manuelabeledo 6y ago

This sounds like the start of a false dichotomy.

tzs 6y ago
Not necessarily. These bad bills keep coming up in an effort to address serious real problems, like child porn. People are going to keep proposing bills to address these problems until something passes. By just concentrating on shooting down bad bill after bad bill without devoting any effort to getting good bills proposed the next bill after each defeated bad bill will be another bill from the same general set of people. Maybe the new one will address some of the issues in the prior ones but the chances are good that it won't address all of them. Just telling everyone else what is wrong with their approach to solving a problem instead of also offering up your own better solutions tends to not work well in the long run.
- darkarmani 6y ago
  > to address serious real problems, like child porn Can you quantify the size of this problem? It sounds like military defense spending during the cold war. "You just have to take our word for it that child porn is a massive problem affecting 1 out of 4 children, so we need to crush the tech industry."
- manuelabeledo 6y ago
  > Just telling everyone else what is wrong with their approach to solving a problem instead of also offering up your own better solutions tends to not work well in the long run. How would you think the introduction of a competing bill would fare, if it still needs the support of the first bill proponents? Wouldn't they believe that anything short than the original bill is not worth supporting? I don't think the issue is that there are no better ways to deal with, say, child porn. I do believe that many politicians, if not most, refuse to acknowledge that there are better solutions out there, and for that there are several factors.
- bcassedy 6y ago
  Child porn is a serious problem in that it is abhorrent. I have not seen any evidence that it is a serious problem in that it has significant impact at a societal level. These bills are not being introduced to significantly reduce child porn. They're meant to further enhance surveillance powers or earn easy political points. Any actual effect on crime is a side benefit. Let's not forget that the same people that propose these bills are the ones hanging out at Epstein's private island.
  - krapp 6y ago
    >I have not seen any evidence that it is a serious problem in that it has significant impact at a societal level. >Let's not forget that the same people that propose these bills are the ones hanging out at Epstein's private island. The implication in the last sentence of your comment would seem to contradict your initial premise.
    - bcassedy 6y ago
      There are only a few hundred people in Congress. Even if all of them were partaking this still wouldn't be a societal impact level issue.
      - krapp 6y ago
        Your comment seemed to imply that a network of pedophiles in Congress was tailoring these laws specifically to weaken law enforcement's ability to prosecute people like them. That would certainly lead to a societal impact, as it would by design empower and entrench child pornographers and pedophiles across the board.
        suizi 6y ago
        What if they wanted to deflect attention from themselves to large numbers of relatively minor criminals?
        bcassedy 6y ago
        Ah I see. What I meant to express was that based on the fact that there appears to be a higher preponderance of child abusers among the rich and powerful, it's unlikely that actions they take are actually "to protect the children"

antepodius 6y ago

Have a mandatory bodycam implanted in everyone's right eyesocket, that livestreams to government servers 24/7. This is an obvious short-term mitigation tactic until they develop brain implants that can pre-emptively moderate harmful thoughts.

darkarmani 6y ago

A modest proposal would suggest killing all of the children. What did you have in mind?

orthecreedence 6y ago

Just a thought, but maybe we should arrest people who make child porn.

DudeInBasement 6y ago
What about those outside the country?
- orthecreedence 6y ago
  Why not send a SEAL strike team? It would be cheaper than the overall effect of banning strong encryption.
- hvis 6y ago
  Why not bomb the shit out of them? Or finally dispense with the desire to police the residents of other countries, and contact the local authorities.
- suizi 6y ago
  At that point, you're playing world police. Other countries can take care of their own problems.

gspr 6y ago

I don't know. But I do know that it's not a technology problem.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

analyte123 6y ago

Serious answer: - Undercover police work and informants, which is how most large busts already happen now. The worst offenders are not swapping child porn on Facebook or Dropbox - Encourage marriage and remove benefits penalties for two-parent households, as children are substantially more likely to be abused when their biological father is not in the household - Institute the death penalty for child sexual abuse and make sure it is performed swiftly and publicly

zelly 6y ago

Make possession carry the death penalty. Before you think that's too harsh, consider that the other options are to ban encryption or to not try to stop it at all (quasi-decriminalization). I don't think anyone would oppose a bill to make CP carry the death penalty. The problem is they won't ever make this law because then they won't be able to milk the cow anymore.

suizi 6y ago

I don't think it is the real problem. It is a problem in the sense that it is disgusting but it isn't worth destroying a free society over and I don't think it is possible to stop. What you can crackdown on are the producers. You can infiltrate the places where it is originally disseminated. You can run face and voice recognition on the content. You can flip lower level mass distributors into informants to gather evidence on the producers. For rapists. You can train teachers and counsellors to identify children who have been abused and to handle other psychological problems like depression which are endemic in our society. You can train police officers to better spot criminals on a basis other than race or status. You can better fund the CPS. You can conduct assessments on parents who appear to be mentally unstable.