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Reminds me of this passage from Cory Doctorow's book Walkaway: "You realize that they're exactly right," Sita said. She smiled, stopped. "You know, when the fi

Reminds me of this passage from Cory Doctorow's book Walkaway: "You realize that they're exactly right," Sita said. She smiled, stopped. "You know, when the first walkaway prostheses project started, most of the people contributing had lost an arm or a leg in Belarus or Oman, and were tired of paying loan sharks for something that hurt and barely worked and could be remotely repossessed by an over-the-air kill-switch if they missed a payment. But once they got here and started living, realized how much had been left on the table by conservative companies that didn't want to get into a patent fight and didn't see any reason to add advanced functionality to something that you didn't have any choice about, they got radicalized. "They stopped saying 'I just want to make an arm that'll get through the day,' and started saying 'I want an arm that does everything my old arm did.' From there, it was a short step to 'I want an arm that's better than my old arm.' And from there, it was an even shorter step to 'I want an arm that's so outrageously awesome that you'll cut off your own to get one.'

black_puppydog 6y ago
Gosh I really love-hate that book. It comes up over and over and over again despite what I consider shoddy writing. It's a bit of a blueprint for how to make the best of a foreseeably shitty future.
- jasim 6y ago
  My feelings as well. But this one sentence made the book worth it - it is a commonplace thought that should've occurred to most others, but anyway was a clearer articulation than whatever I'd had: "I'm suspicious of any plan to fix unfairness that starts with 'step one, dismantle the entire system and replace it with a better one,' especially if you can't do anything else until step one is done. Of all the ways that people kid themselves into doing nothing, that one is the most self-serving."
  - donw 6y ago
    Love that quote. I think why so many people want to "dismantle the system" is exactly the same reason that less-experienced engineers push for rewrites: it seems easier to build a good system from scratch, than it does to build the skills required to refactor what you already have into what you need. (Not to mention, the skills to understand what you actually need!) Because, more often than not, it turns out that the old system had evolved to deal with a crazy number of edge-cases that were, in fact, really, really important. Also, and connected: there seems to be this odd zeitgeist of "make other people solve things". Like, most of us think homelessness is bad, and most of us want to help the homeless, but how few people actually directly invest their own money -- which I would argue is more important than donating time -- towards actually solving that problem? If I lived in the US, I'd be half-tempted to do a YouTube series where all I do is run around, ask people what they think the biggest problem is in society, and then ask them how much money they've spent to help fix it. Might be interesting, especially if I could do so with a curated list of charities (e.g., ones that don't just pocket the money for nefarious purposes)...
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      > Because, more often than not, it turns out that the old system had evolved to deal with a crazy number of edge-cases that were, in fact, really, really important. The problem is that a lot of crufty old systems evolved to deal with a crazy number of edge cases that no longer exist. Or they started out with a bad assumption, and then had some hacks applied to deal with the problems that caused, and then had some other hacks applied to deal with the problems those hacks caused, until nobody can see from one end to the other. It's important to be able to tell the difference between something which is complicated because it's dealing with a complicated problem and something which is complicated because it's hot garbage. > Like, most of us think homelessness is bad, and most of us want to help the homeless, but how few people actually directly invest their own money -- which I would argue is more important than donating time -- towards actually solving that problem? The trouble with many of these issues is that they're results rather than causes. Why is someone homeless? For one person it's mental illness, for another it's unemployment, for another it's drugs, for another it's housing costs. So if you want to solve homelessness, all you have to do is solve mental health, unemployment, drug policy and zoning. And then six other problems that caused six other people to be homeless. Which, it turns out, somebody needed to solve anyway, but now you've got to pick something to focus on. And I think that's where people have trouble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buridan%27s_ass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buridan%27s_ass
- zrobotics 6y ago
  Honestly, for me Doctorow and Heinlein occupy many of the same spaces. It isn't great fiction, but the ideas presented coupled with 1-2 paragraphs of absolute brilliance make it worthwhile. And both have their cringey moments, although Heinlein definitely takes that cake.
hinkley 6y ago
> 'I want an arm that's so outrageously awesome that you'll cut off your own to get one.' Probably not the first and definitely not the last time that idea will be tried in sci-fi (and out of). I can't recall what story but there's one where operations people have twice the usual complement of fingers. There's also a guy who hacked the interface for his prosthetic arm to directly control a sound board. Why go analog-digital-analog-digital-analog when you can skip two steps in the middle?
- mcguire 6y ago
  Dr. Adder, K.W. Jeter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Adder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Adder
- rideontime 6y ago
  The guy mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSKBtEBRWi4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSKBtEBRWi4
shannietron 6y ago
Reminds me so much of Machine Man by Max Barry. "Charles Neumann is a mechanical engineer working at Better Future, a military research company. After losing one of his legs in a hydraulic clamp, he begins to tinker with leg prosthetics. The replacements he builds are so advanced that he amputates his remaining leg in order to make full use of them."

black_puppydog 6y ago

Gosh I really love-hate that book. It comes up over and over and over again despite what I consider shoddy writing. It's a bit of a blueprint for how to make the best of a foreseeably shitty future.

jasim 6y ago
My feelings as well. But this one sentence made the book worth it - it is a commonplace thought that should've occurred to most others, but anyway was a clearer articulation than whatever I'd had: "I'm suspicious of any plan to fix unfairness that starts with 'step one, dismantle the entire system and replace it with a better one,' especially if you can't do anything else until step one is done. Of all the ways that people kid themselves into doing nothing, that one is the most self-serving."
- donw 6y ago
  Love that quote. I think why so many people want to "dismantle the system" is exactly the same reason that less-experienced engineers push for rewrites: it seems easier to build a good system from scratch, than it does to build the skills required to refactor what you already have into what you need. (Not to mention, the skills to understand what you actually need!) Because, more often than not, it turns out that the old system had evolved to deal with a crazy number of edge-cases that were, in fact, really, really important. Also, and connected: there seems to be this odd zeitgeist of "make other people solve things". Like, most of us think homelessness is bad, and most of us want to help the homeless, but how few people actually directly invest their own money -- which I would argue is more important than donating time -- towards actually solving that problem? If I lived in the US, I'd be half-tempted to do a YouTube series where all I do is run around, ask people what they think the biggest problem is in society, and then ask them how much money they've spent to help fix it. Might be interesting, especially if I could do so with a curated list of charities (e.g., ones that don't just pocket the money for nefarious purposes)...
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > Because, more often than not, it turns out that the old system had evolved to deal with a crazy number of edge-cases that were, in fact, really, really important. The problem is that a lot of crufty old systems evolved to deal with a crazy number of edge cases that no longer exist. Or they started out with a bad assumption, and then had some hacks applied to deal with the problems that caused, and then had some other hacks applied to deal with the problems those hacks caused, until nobody can see from one end to the other. It's important to be able to tell the difference between something which is complicated because it's dealing with a complicated problem and something which is complicated because it's hot garbage. > Like, most of us think homelessness is bad, and most of us want to help the homeless, but how few people actually directly invest their own money -- which I would argue is more important than donating time -- towards actually solving that problem? The trouble with many of these issues is that they're results rather than causes. Why is someone homeless? For one person it's mental illness, for another it's unemployment, for another it's drugs, for another it's housing costs. So if you want to solve homelessness, all you have to do is solve mental health, unemployment, drug policy and zoning. And then six other problems that caused six other people to be homeless. Which, it turns out, somebody needed to solve anyway, but now you've got to pick something to focus on. And I think that's where people have trouble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buridan%27s_ass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buridan%27s_ass
zrobotics 6y ago
Honestly, for me Doctorow and Heinlein occupy many of the same spaces. It isn't great fiction, but the ideas presented coupled with 1-2 paragraphs of absolute brilliance make it worthwhile. And both have their cringey moments, although Heinlein definitely takes that cake.

hinkley 6y ago

> 'I want an arm that's so outrageously awesome that you'll cut off your own to get one.' Probably not the first and definitely not the last time that idea will be tried in sci-fi (and out of). I can't recall what story but there's one where operations people have twice the usual complement of fingers. There's also a guy who hacked the interface for his prosthetic arm to directly control a sound board. Why go analog-digital-analog-digital-analog when you can skip two steps in the middle?

mcguire 6y ago
Dr. Adder, K.W. Jeter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Adder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Adder
rideontime 6y ago
The guy mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSKBtEBRWi4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSKBtEBRWi4

shannietron 6y ago

Reminds me so much of Machine Man by Max Barry. "Charles Neumann is a mechanical engineer working at Better Future, a military research company. After losing one of his legs in a hydraulic clamp, he begins to tinker with leg prosthetics. The replacements he builds are so advanced that he amputates his remaining leg in order to make full use of them."