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But there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align, is there? The idea that it's all or nothing is nothing

But there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align, is there? The idea that it's all or nothing is nothing more than yet another canard put about by anti-Brexit protagonists.

toyg 6y ago
> there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was.
- growlist 6y ago
  > But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there is no possibility whatsoever of a third situation. I'd suggest that's very obviously bogus. What I find revealing is that years on from the referendum it's the same crude, tired and spurious anti-Brexit arguments being trotted out. If after all this time the only tactic is Project Fear mk. infinity, what can one conclude about the supposed benefits of EU membership?
  - ben_w 6y ago
    You’re saying this on a thread whose ancestor comment (not yours, I know) was: > the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions? And you’re saying it to people who are coming up with reasons why the post-Brexit EU doesn’t share your concerns. This does not require a “cold war type situation”. It just requires every other EU member state to have more important things from their own perspective. It’s not hatred you’re seeing from the EU, it is apathy. The false dichotomy is your own.
  - blibble 6y ago
    just FYI: you're arguing with someone that spent a year attempting to move to the EU because the UK voted to leave (from his own comments on this site) everything the UK does is automatically bad
    - ben_w 6y ago
      Someone who succeeded in remaining in the EU after a one year delay to look after a parent with Alzheimer’s, not explicitly because of the vote itself but because several prominent Brexit campaigners wanted to take away the one stick I could use to fight off the Investigatory Powers Act 2016. And no, not everything, and definitely not automatically — that’s one mind-trap I am keen to avoid. It’s just that competent “no-EEA Brexit” planning would take the UK about 10 of the last 4 years even if it hadn’t done anything else. Heck, if Cameron has said “Oh well, EEA it will be then like the Leave campaigners asked for :(” I would probably still be in the UK, because EEA membership requires the government to allow me to use the metaphorical stick I want to keep the IP Act at bay.
      - blibble 6y ago
        > And no, not everything, and definitely not automatically — that’s one mind-trap I am keen to avoid. if you say so, I actually worked with you before in meatspace and have seen the dogmatic behaviour before (several times)
ben_w 6y ago
If their interests aligned. Without the UK having a seat at the table, they ‘ain’t going to align. That is literally the point of Brexit in the first place, for the UK to diverge from the EU, because without that the members of the current U.K. government would not have campaigned for it in the first place. And that big flashing neon “if” is still true with a competent government, let alone the current lot which (as per recent news) is pouring money into a failed multinational project that cannot fit their requirements just to avoid the embarrassment of continuing to spend money on entirely successful multinational projects that happen to be EU-branded. Also, what do ducks have to do with anything? > yet another canard
- growlist 6y ago
  Definition of canard 1a : a false or unfounded report or story especially : a fabricated report The report about a conspiracy proved to be a canard. b : a groundless rumor or belief the widespread canard that every lawyer is dishonest

toyg 6y ago

> there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was.

growlist 6y ago
> But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there is no possibility whatsoever of a third situation. I'd suggest that's very obviously bogus. What I find revealing is that years on from the referendum it's the same crude, tired and spurious anti-Brexit arguments being trotted out. If after all this time the only tactic is Project Fear mk. infinity, what can one conclude about the supposed benefits of EU membership?
- ben_w 6y ago
  You’re saying this on a thread whose ancestor comment (not yours, I know) was: > the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions? And you’re saying it to people who are coming up with reasons why the post-Brexit EU doesn’t share your concerns. This does not require a “cold war type situation”. It just requires every other EU member state to have more important things from their own perspective. It’s not hatred you’re seeing from the EU, it is apathy. The false dichotomy is your own.
- blibble 6y ago
  just FYI: you're arguing with someone that spent a year attempting to move to the EU because the UK voted to leave (from his own comments on this site) everything the UK does is automatically bad
  - ben_w 6y ago
    Someone who succeeded in remaining in the EU after a one year delay to look after a parent with Alzheimer’s, not explicitly because of the vote itself but because several prominent Brexit campaigners wanted to take away the one stick I could use to fight off the Investigatory Powers Act 2016. And no, not everything, and definitely not automatically — that’s one mind-trap I am keen to avoid. It’s just that competent “no-EEA Brexit” planning would take the UK about 10 of the last 4 years even if it hadn’t done anything else. Heck, if Cameron has said “Oh well, EEA it will be then like the Leave campaigners asked for :(” I would probably still be in the UK, because EEA membership requires the government to allow me to use the metaphorical stick I want to keep the IP Act at bay.
    - blibble 6y ago
      > And no, not everything, and definitely not automatically — that’s one mind-trap I am keen to avoid. if you say so, I actually worked with you before in meatspace and have seen the dogmatic behaviour before (several times)

ben_w 6y ago

If their interests aligned. Without the UK having a seat at the table, they ‘ain’t going to align. That is literally the point of Brexit in the first place, for the UK to diverge from the EU, because without that the members of the current U.K. government would not have campaigned for it in the first place. And that big flashing neon “if” is still true with a competent government, let alone the current lot which (as per recent news) is pouring money into a failed multinational project that cannot fit their requirements just to avoid the embarrassment of continuing to spend money on entirely successful multinational projects that happen to be EU-branded. Also, what do ducks have to do with anything? > yet another canard

growlist 6y ago
Definition of canard 1a : a false or unfounded report or story especially : a fabricated report The report about a conspiracy proved to be a canard. b : a groundless rumor or belief the widespread canard that every lawyer is dishonest