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Life in China is fine right now. They are living about 50x better off than their parents. They are educated. The CCP is super clever and imbued a sort of natio

Life in China is fine right now. They are living about 50x better off than their parents. They are educated. The CCP is super clever and imbued a sort of nationalistic pride from birth. Instead of the US's more complicated dualistic individualism/patriotism combo, the Chinese people actually get some sort of pride for being a cog in the CCP machine. It's a completely different paradigm and obviously super dangerous because it allows the people at the top who aren't elected to pull the strings on a machine of 1.4 billion people. If they run the system correctly, it can be much more "effective". Democracy has lots of pressure outlets, and it is definitely much more healthy longterm. That's why I think it's the better system, even vs a well-run (and let's even assume benevolent) CCP.

Apfel 6y ago
It should be pointed out that life in Hong Kong is definitely not markedly better for young people than it was for their parents.
- throw51319 6y ago
  Yup, and exactly part of the reason they are protesting. Goes to show how much "relative" economic success is important to peoples' satisfaction of government. Even in the US, that is the #1 issue in every Pres election. How's the economy? Aka do people with 401k's think that they are better off, and thus do they think they are doing better against their peers (their competition for finding a mate/maintaining their mate)
bamboozled 6y ago
So I think you're saying that, people are brainwashed to believe in the party?
- albertsondev 6y ago
  Not brainwashed, but socialized. In East Asian countries and China especially, collectivism and Confucianism are pervasive, with deep cultural roots. The CCP is, of course, supporting and reinforcing those ideals, but it's just as much simply taking advantage of the pre-existing culture. Just like how the US is strongly culturally capitalist and individualistic -- as we value bootstraps capitalism and the "American Dream", the people of mainland China value supporting each other and the state, even when it's not explicitly in their best interests.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    > In East Asian countries and China especially, collectivism and Confucianism are pervasive, with deep cultural roots. In East Asian countries and China especially, nobody gives a flying .... about collectivism and Confucianism, and cultural roots. It's by far the most egoistic, conflict driven, cut throat society I've ever been.
    - throw51319 6y ago
      So you are basically saying that the cohesion of China is because they are doing better economically these past few decades... and thus people's egos are at an all-time high. Thus they support the regime.
      - baybal2 6y ago
        > Thus they support the regime. Ahem... most Chinese can't get more curses for it. Even unranked CPC members, and civil servants quietly hate them. One needs to read a lot of People's Daily to drink this koolaid The few who do almost all are the poor, underachieving, and angry "little pink" flag waving youth, or are the actual accessories to the system.
      - starfallg 6y ago
        Which is not far off the mark. In China there is a pervasive feeling that the reason it is behind in development is due to the Imperialism in the 1800s and the domination of Western powers over China. This developed into some sort of inferiority complex. With economic development they claim that China is no longer the 'sick man of Asia', the shaking off of which imbues them some sort of pride. That pride is the source of support for the CCP, not any inherent properties of the system.
pldr1234 6y ago
Extremely insightful. I'd never considered this perspective. Thank you for this.

Apfel 6y ago

It should be pointed out that life in Hong Kong is definitely not markedly better for young people than it was for their parents.

throw51319 6y ago
Yup, and exactly part of the reason they are protesting. Goes to show how much "relative" economic success is important to peoples' satisfaction of government. Even in the US, that is the #1 issue in every Pres election. How's the economy? Aka do people with 401k's think that they are better off, and thus do they think they are doing better against their peers (their competition for finding a mate/maintaining their mate)

bamboozled 6y ago

So I think you're saying that, people are brainwashed to believe in the party?

albertsondev 6y ago
Not brainwashed, but socialized. In East Asian countries and China especially, collectivism and Confucianism are pervasive, with deep cultural roots. The CCP is, of course, supporting and reinforcing those ideals, but it's just as much simply taking advantage of the pre-existing culture. Just like how the US is strongly culturally capitalist and individualistic -- as we value bootstraps capitalism and the "American Dream", the people of mainland China value supporting each other and the state, even when it's not explicitly in their best interests.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > In East Asian countries and China especially, collectivism and Confucianism are pervasive, with deep cultural roots. In East Asian countries and China especially, nobody gives a flying .... about collectivism and Confucianism, and cultural roots. It's by far the most egoistic, conflict driven, cut throat society I've ever been.
  - throw51319 6y ago
    So you are basically saying that the cohesion of China is because they are doing better economically these past few decades... and thus people's egos are at an all-time high. Thus they support the regime.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      > Thus they support the regime. Ahem... most Chinese can't get more curses for it. Even unranked CPC members, and civil servants quietly hate them. One needs to read a lot of People's Daily to drink this koolaid The few who do almost all are the poor, underachieving, and angry "little pink" flag waving youth, or are the actual accessories to the system.
    - starfallg 6y ago
      Which is not far off the mark. In China there is a pervasive feeling that the reason it is behind in development is due to the Imperialism in the 1800s and the domination of Western powers over China. This developed into some sort of inferiority complex. With economic development they claim that China is no longer the 'sick man of Asia', the shaking off of which imbues them some sort of pride. That pride is the source of support for the CCP, not any inherent properties of the system.

pldr1234 6y ago

Extremely insightful. I'd never considered this perspective. Thank you for this.