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Hey folks, I'm the author here and CEO of RankScience (YC W17). AMA about this growth hack or SEO in general!

by ryanb 6y ago

andreygrehov 6y ago
I've got something I've always been curious about. If the website was penalized by Google, is it possible to rank _after_ the penalty is lifted? Edit: the story behind this question. A friend of mine has a local business. He once paid an SEO agency to do optimizations for his website. After a while, the website was penalized because of some shady stuff the agency did (paid links?). The penalty is long gone, but it looks like Google never forgets anything, so the website is sitting there on 5+ pages for pretty much any keyword.
- ryanb 6y ago
  Yep, this is called a "manual action" by Google, and they'll often tell you exactly what you're doing that they find offensive. Usually this involves buying spammy backlinks. You can resolve the issue and ask them to re-evaluate your site by submitting a Reconsideration request. https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/9044175?hl=en https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/9044175?hl=en
  - ngold 6y ago
    Good stuff. Tell us more googly stories of interest. This is super fascinating.
    - ryanb 6y ago
      Engagement on links clicked in Gmail is likely a ranking factor in Google search. We've done studies with popular e-mail newsletters that showed URLs performing better in search on days when they've been sent out to hundreds of thousands of people.
airstrike 6y ago
"Growth hack" sounds so benign when this is really tantamount to spam
- skymt 6y ago
  "Growth hack" is an industry euphemism for "unethical practice." You can tell it doesn't literally mean "growth hack" because it's being applied here to the website that Alexa currently ranks #152 worldwide and the typical excuses about how you need to get a little dirty when you're a tiny business just getting started don't remotely hold water.
  - ponker 6y ago
    Not all growth hacking is unethical. WePay's $100 bills in a big block of ice dropped off at the PayPal conference comes to mind. Or Dropbox giving you extra free quota for going through their tutorial, installing on a new device, or inviting a friend (where the friend also gets extra free quota).
    - thewebcount 6y ago
      I don't about the other ones, but giving you extra when you get someone else to join is unethical. MCI started this trend with their "friends and family" promotion, and it really pissed people off. People who don't use the system hate being pestered by friends and family to join something they don't want or need.
  - paulcole 6y ago
    This is classic HN. MARKETING BAD! ENGINEER GOOD!
cj 6y ago
In your opinion, is this a growth hack you'd suggest one of your customers try? Or does it cross a line in your opinion? "SEO Optimization" is difficult because it's such an imperfect science (or perhaps not, based on your company name!) What are a couple examples or anecdotes of SEO "hacks" / optimizations that are least obvious or things most people wouldn't think of, that have had the most significant impact on SEO?
- ryanb 6y ago
  I think it crosses the line and I'm surprised Google hasn't issue them a warning, or maybe they have and we just haven't heard about it. Organic search is still where 80% of the clicks are in search. (only 20% go to paid - though this is changing) These are easy wins and are considered "white hat" and legitimate tactics: * Title tag optimization with SEO A/B testing - increase CTR from Google by 10-40% * Using NLP Content Optimization to increase content relevancy * Optimize internal linking structure of your site so Google can easily understand your site hierarchy and spread value to important pages * Build natural backlinks by creating interesting content that people want to engage with and link to (like this post!) https://www.rankscience.com/coderwall-seo-split-test https://www.rankscience.com/coderwall-seo-split-test
RubenvanE 6y ago
SEO ‘hacking’ is clearly positive for the businesses doing it, but the benefits on a larger scale are less clear cut. Do you believe strategies such as outlined in the article are a net positive, negative, or a neutral tactic for search engines and the web at large?
- ryanb 6y ago
  At the end of the day, Google is a private company. They get to set the rules and police search results how they see fit. I don't think Pinterest is doing anything unethical. I do think it is spammy, though.
  - RubenvanE 6y ago
    But is spamming not in its essence 'unethical'? It might not be illegal, but it is morally at least questionable and many will say it's unambiguously immoral.
  - xg15 6y ago
    What would you consider unethical?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
hysan 6y ago
I just started a new job where the company is heavily invested into SEO. Being new to the subject, what resources would you suggest for a webdev to first learn the technical fundamentals and then to get deep into the weeds?

Hey folks, I'm the author here and CEO of RankScience (YC W17). AMA about this growth hack or SEO in general!

by ryanb 6y ago

Hey folks, I'm the author here and CEO of RankScience (YC W17). AMA about this growth hack or SEO in general!

I've got something I've always been curious about. If the website was penalized by Google, is it possible to rank _after_ the penalty is lifted? Edit: the story behind this question. A friend of mine has a local business. He once paid an SEO agency to do optimizations for his website. After a while, the website was penalized because of some shady stuff the agency did (paid links?). The penalty is long gone, but it looks like Google never forgets anything, so the website is sitting there on 5+ pages for pretty much any keyword.

ryanb 6y ago
Yep, this is called a "manual action" by Google, and they'll often tell you exactly what you're doing that they find offensive. Usually this involves buying spammy backlinks. You can resolve the issue and ask them to re-evaluate your site by submitting a Reconsideration request. https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/9044175?hl=en https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/9044175?hl=en
- ngold 6y ago
  Good stuff. Tell us more googly stories of interest. This is super fascinating.
  - ryanb 6y ago
    Engagement on links clicked in Gmail is likely a ranking factor in Google search. We've done studies with popular e-mail newsletters that showed URLs performing better in search on days when they've been sent out to hundreds of thousands of people.

airstrike 6y ago

"Growth hack" sounds so benign when this is really tantamount to spam

skymt 6y ago
"Growth hack" is an industry euphemism for "unethical practice." You can tell it doesn't literally mean "growth hack" because it's being applied here to the website that Alexa currently ranks #152 worldwide and the typical excuses about how you need to get a little dirty when you're a tiny business just getting started don't remotely hold water.
- ponker 6y ago
  Not all growth hacking is unethical. WePay's $100 bills in a big block of ice dropped off at the PayPal conference comes to mind. Or Dropbox giving you extra free quota for going through their tutorial, installing on a new device, or inviting a friend (where the friend also gets extra free quota).
  - thewebcount 6y ago
    I don't about the other ones, but giving you extra when you get someone else to join is unethical. MCI started this trend with their "friends and family" promotion, and it really pissed people off. People who don't use the system hate being pestered by friends and family to join something they don't want or need.
- paulcole 6y ago
  This is classic HN. MARKETING BAD! ENGINEER GOOD!

cj 6y ago

In your opinion, is this a growth hack you'd suggest one of your customers try? Or does it cross a line in your opinion? "SEO Optimization" is difficult because it's such an imperfect science (or perhaps not, based on your company name!) What are a couple examples or anecdotes of SEO "hacks" / optimizations that are least obvious or things most people wouldn't think of, that have had the most significant impact on SEO?

ryanb 6y ago
I think it crosses the line and I'm surprised Google hasn't issue them a warning, or maybe they have and we just haven't heard about it. Organic search is still where 80% of the clicks are in search. (only 20% go to paid - though this is changing) These are easy wins and are considered "white hat" and legitimate tactics: * Title tag optimization with SEO A/B testing - increase CTR from Google by 10-40% * Using NLP Content Optimization to increase content relevancy * Optimize internal linking structure of your site so Google can easily understand your site hierarchy and spread value to important pages * Build natural backlinks by creating interesting content that people want to engage with and link to (like this post!) https://www.rankscience.com/coderwall-seo-split-test https://www.rankscience.com/coderwall-seo-split-test

RubenvanE 6y ago

SEO ‘hacking’ is clearly positive for the businesses doing it, but the benefits on a larger scale are less clear cut. Do you believe strategies such as outlined in the article are a net positive, negative, or a neutral tactic for search engines and the web at large?

ryanb 6y ago
At the end of the day, Google is a private company. They get to set the rules and police search results how they see fit. I don't think Pinterest is doing anything unethical. I do think it is spammy, though.
- RubenvanE 6y ago
  But is spamming not in its essence 'unethical'? It might not be illegal, but it is morally at least questionable and many will say it's unambiguously immoral.
- xg15 6y ago
  What would you consider unethical?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

hysan 6y ago

I just started a new job where the company is heavily invested into SEO. Being new to the subject, what resources would you suggest for a webdev to first learn the technical fundamentals and then to get deep into the weeds?