6 ms·

This is exactly why I'm trying to move out of the USA.

by entropea 6y ago

derision 6y ago
Because of the rise of the authoritarian left spreading fear across the country with violence and looting?
- entropea 6y ago
  No, the authoritarian right which includes US liberals. The left doesn't even exist worldwide except in extremely small insignificant numbers pumped up by media to create new red scare conditions among the population. The left has been crushed for the last 40+ years by the authoritarian right and has absolutely no backbone. The authoritarian right runs the gig, the authoritarian right creates the violence. Edit: DSA, arguably the USA's largest, most mainstream true left group is only ~65,000 members across the nation. Quite tiny. I've been to bigger soccer matches. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/dsa-growing-during-coronavirus/611599/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/dsa-gro...
  - throw51319 6y ago
    Laughable. The ways things are going currently, if you don't agree with the left on things you can lose your job. You can't voice an opinion that is different or you get labeled a racist. You can see this every day in plain sight.
    - vertex-four 6y ago
      There's a reason some portion of the left is pretty intolerant of the current situation - it literally results in violence to people who don't even share their opinions in the first place.
      - throw51319 6y ago
        The "current situation" is not as clear-cut as many would make it out to be. Watching an emotional video is not the smoking gun that shows one side to be completely right, but that's what's happening now. I would think a good write up/analysis using high quality statistics would be the way to decide what is happening in the "current situation". But a graphic and emotional video is going to pull the strings much harder.
        vertex-four 6y ago
        A lot of people have been trying "good write-ups" and "high quality statistics" for a long time, it turns out they don't actually change people's minds - people make up their mind before reading the article. The production of "high quality statistics" hasn't been the turning point in any civil rights movement I'm aware of.
        throw51319 6y ago
        Yeah - and i'm just saying that it should be, instead of an emotional response etc.
        vertex-four 6y ago
        For what it's worth, I've read the statistics, I've read the counterpoints to the statistics, I believe based on them that there is a right-wing violence problem in the US and some other specific places.
    - take_a_breath 6y ago
      When the market doesn't like your actions, the market makes you pay. That's how the system works. Regulating that market response seems like the actual authoritarian move.
  - derision 6y ago
    I don't know how you can write such a nonsensical comment as left wing groups across the country are tearing down statues, rioting and looting, destroying businesses, and terrorizing communities (see residents and business owners inside CHAZ, for example). Can you show me some examples of right wing violence?
    - vertex-four 6y ago
      Yes, but it's a lot more distributed. It's people being assaulted in public spaces for being in any way different. It's the bathroom bills encouraging people to assault people in bathrooms based on nothing but perceived trans status - and then this actually happening. I've suffered both in a country where I theoretically have protections, and I am aware that my friends in the US have suffered worse. I am not going to go into what folk outside my communities suffer from, but I imagine it's not a whole lot better. This isn't violence based on stating an opinion - it's violence based on simply daring to exist in a public space. There's very little news coverage of it because it's "small" things - assaults that leave bruises and not much more, but which the victims know mean they're not welcome in the public spaces everybody else takes for granted - that happen all the time to people minding their own business, and this is and has been the norm for a very long time.
      - derision 6y ago
        tl;dr: no you don't have any examples. got it.
        vertex-four 6y ago
        OK, how about this: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/06/health/trans-teens-bathroom-policies-sexual-assault-study/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/06/health/trans-teens-bathro... - right wing policies lead to sexual assault. What about this - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-carolina-trans-sexual-assault-raleigh-bathroom-bill-women-charged-a8718796.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-caro... - right-wing violence, kidnapping and sexually violating someone for taking a fucking piss. Do you want me to spend the next 24 hours finding you news stories of right-wing violence against people minding their own business? Actually, no, you do it. EDIT: Ooh, this one, where right-wing violence resulted in literally needing bone surgery to repair the victim's face: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/us/man-guilty-hate-crime-beat-trans-woman-restroom-trnd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/us/man-guilty-hate-crime-... You try and explain to me how property damage is the same thing as murdering people in cold blood for simply existing. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/18/chicago-transgender-woman-shot-selena-reyes-hernandez/3219244001/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/18/chicago... What do you want to see? What would convince you that right-wing violence is a problem? Number of hate crimes?
tvphan 6y ago
I see the USA as more chaotic than authoritarian.
woodpanel 6y ago
Why trying? If it is so bad in the US, what is keeping you there? Many developed countries have relatively few immigration hurdles for US Americans to pass. UK in particular, European countries are lax in general in these regards (I live in Germany).
- vertex-four 6y ago
  "Relatively few" usually means a significant employment barrier - you usually have to be making a certain amount of money which is hard to come by at the lower rungs of STEM employment, especially if you're restricted to applying for companies you can interview with from overseas.
  - woodpanel 6y ago
    "Relatively few" for Germany means e.g. - if you're looking for a job here, as an US citizen you get 3 months visa without questions asked - there is no minimum amount of money needed in Germany for US citizens, neither as a deposit nor as pay
    - brabel 6y ago
      I believe that in all countries in Europe, there's a requirement that the pay be at market level to avoid the exploitation of immigrants (there's no distinction based on country of origin as you seem to imply), and that the job be advertised first with the EU's job agency (whatever that is called, I forgot now) and EU citizens are able to apply before an immigrant may be allowed to apply and take the job.
      - woodpanel 6y ago
        " the pay be at market level " I believe that is called minimum wage? So that would be already a given. there's no distinction based on country of origin as you seem to imply there is a distinction: There is a German by-law as well as a EU-decree that classifies US Americans as citizens of a "priviliged country" (§ 26 BeschV (Verordnung über die Beschäftigung von Ausländern)). https://www.bdae.com/journalbeitraege/dezember-2016-leben-und-arbeiten-im-ausland/462-arbeitserlaubnis-fuer-expats-aus-den-usa-das-muessen-unternehmen-beachten https://www.bdae.com/journalbeitraege/dezember-2016-leben-un...

This is exactly why I'm trying to move out of the USA.

derision 6y ago

Because of the rise of the authoritarian left spreading fear across the country with violence and looting?

entropea 6y ago
No, the authoritarian right which includes US liberals. The left doesn't even exist worldwide except in extremely small insignificant numbers pumped up by media to create new red scare conditions among the population. The left has been crushed for the last 40+ years by the authoritarian right and has absolutely no backbone. The authoritarian right runs the gig, the authoritarian right creates the violence. Edit: DSA, arguably the USA's largest, most mainstream true left group is only ~65,000 members across the nation. Quite tiny. I've been to bigger soccer matches. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/dsa-growing-during-coronavirus/611599/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/dsa-gro...
- throw51319 6y ago
  Laughable. The ways things are going currently, if you don't agree with the left on things you can lose your job. You can't voice an opinion that is different or you get labeled a racist. You can see this every day in plain sight.
  - vertex-four 6y ago
    There's a reason some portion of the left is pretty intolerant of the current situation - it literally results in violence to people who don't even share their opinions in the first place.
    - throw51319 6y ago
      The "current situation" is not as clear-cut as many would make it out to be. Watching an emotional video is not the smoking gun that shows one side to be completely right, but that's what's happening now. I would think a good write up/analysis using high quality statistics would be the way to decide what is happening in the "current situation". But a graphic and emotional video is going to pull the strings much harder.
      - vertex-four 6y ago
        A lot of people have been trying "good write-ups" and "high quality statistics" for a long time, it turns out they don't actually change people's minds - people make up their mind before reading the article. The production of "high quality statistics" hasn't been the turning point in any civil rights movement I'm aware of.
        throw51319 6y ago
        Yeah - and i'm just saying that it should be, instead of an emotional response etc.
        vertex-four 6y ago
        For what it's worth, I've read the statistics, I've read the counterpoints to the statistics, I believe based on them that there is a right-wing violence problem in the US and some other specific places.
  - take_a_breath 6y ago
    When the market doesn't like your actions, the market makes you pay. That's how the system works. Regulating that market response seems like the actual authoritarian move.
- derision 6y ago
  I don't know how you can write such a nonsensical comment as left wing groups across the country are tearing down statues, rioting and looting, destroying businesses, and terrorizing communities (see residents and business owners inside CHAZ, for example). Can you show me some examples of right wing violence?
  - vertex-four 6y ago
    Yes, but it's a lot more distributed. It's people being assaulted in public spaces for being in any way different. It's the bathroom bills encouraging people to assault people in bathrooms based on nothing but perceived trans status - and then this actually happening. I've suffered both in a country where I theoretically have protections, and I am aware that my friends in the US have suffered worse. I am not going to go into what folk outside my communities suffer from, but I imagine it's not a whole lot better. This isn't violence based on stating an opinion - it's violence based on simply daring to exist in a public space. There's very little news coverage of it because it's "small" things - assaults that leave bruises and not much more, but which the victims know mean they're not welcome in the public spaces everybody else takes for granted - that happen all the time to people minding their own business, and this is and has been the norm for a very long time.
    - derision 6y ago
      tl;dr: no you don't have any examples. got it.
      - vertex-four 6y ago
        OK, how about this: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/06/health/trans-teens-bathroom-policies-sexual-assault-study/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/06/health/trans-teens-bathro... - right wing policies lead to sexual assault. What about this - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-carolina-trans-sexual-assault-raleigh-bathroom-bill-women-charged-a8718796.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-caro... - right-wing violence, kidnapping and sexually violating someone for taking a fucking piss. Do you want me to spend the next 24 hours finding you news stories of right-wing violence against people minding their own business? Actually, no, you do it. EDIT: Ooh, this one, where right-wing violence resulted in literally needing bone surgery to repair the victim's face: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/us/man-guilty-hate-crime-beat-trans-woman-restroom-trnd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/us/man-guilty-hate-crime-... You try and explain to me how property damage is the same thing as murdering people in cold blood for simply existing. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/18/chicago-transgender-woman-shot-selena-reyes-hernandez/3219244001/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/18/chicago... What do you want to see? What would convince you that right-wing violence is a problem? Number of hate crimes?

tvphan 6y ago

I see the USA as more chaotic than authoritarian.

woodpanel 6y ago

Why trying? If it is so bad in the US, what is keeping you there? Many developed countries have relatively few immigration hurdles for US Americans to pass. UK in particular, European countries are lax in general in these regards (I live in Germany).

vertex-four 6y ago
"Relatively few" usually means a significant employment barrier - you usually have to be making a certain amount of money which is hard to come by at the lower rungs of STEM employment, especially if you're restricted to applying for companies you can interview with from overseas.
- woodpanel 6y ago
  "Relatively few" for Germany means e.g. - if you're looking for a job here, as an US citizen you get 3 months visa without questions asked - there is no minimum amount of money needed in Germany for US citizens, neither as a deposit nor as pay
  - brabel 6y ago
    I believe that in all countries in Europe, there's a requirement that the pay be at market level to avoid the exploitation of immigrants (there's no distinction based on country of origin as you seem to imply), and that the job be advertised first with the EU's job agency (whatever that is called, I forgot now) and EU citizens are able to apply before an immigrant may be allowed to apply and take the job.
    - woodpanel 6y ago
      " the pay be at market level " I believe that is called minimum wage? So that would be already a given. there's no distinction based on country of origin as you seem to imply there is a distinction: There is a German by-law as well as a EU-decree that classifies US Americans as citizens of a "priviliged country" (§ 26 BeschV (Verordnung über die Beschäftigung von Ausländern)). https://www.bdae.com/journalbeitraege/dezember-2016-leben-und-arbeiten-im-ausland/462-arbeitserlaubnis-fuer-expats-aus-den-usa-das-muessen-unternehmen-beachten https://www.bdae.com/journalbeitraege/dezember-2016-leben-un...