3 ms·

> Before, we could at least try to get the EU to go to bat for our interests, and have a real impact. the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several t

> Before, we could at least try to get the EU to go to bat for our interests, and have a real impact. the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/europe/disinformation-china-eu-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/europe/disinformati... come on

toyg 6y ago
I did say "try". Now we cannot even try, and stuff like this happens.
- blibble 6y ago
  what would you expect it to even try to do with the UK present, given that EU foreign policy can be veto'ed by a single member state? several of which are keen to preserve or grow their CCP trade
  - toyg 6y ago
    We are as keen as anyone - see the nuclear power plant projects and 5G. Still, is it just a coincidence that Xi accelerated his plans shortly after Brexit? Between that and Trump, we are effectively isolated and fundamentally vulnerable to this sort of power play.
    - blibble 6y ago
      > Still, is it just a coincidence that Xi accelerated his plans shortly after Brexit? most likely, I doubt the EU or UK even register on the CCP's plans for the Chinese century "delusions of grandeur"
ben_w 6y ago
They said “try”. Rest of the EU might have said “no”, but now the EU hasn’t got any more reason to listen to the UK than to listen to, say, Australia’s opinion about Hong Kong. Then there is also the reduced power of the EU post-Brexit. Just because Brexit costs the UK influence doesn’t mean it doesn’t cost the EU too — without the UK, the EU is only about 85% of the GDP of the other two big trade giants (the USA and China are each about equal to what the EU was with the UK).
- growlist 6y ago
  But there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align, is there? The idea that it's all or nothing is nothing more than yet another canard put about by anti-Brexit protagonists.
  - toyg 6y ago
    > there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was.
    - growlist 6y ago
      > But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there is no possibility whatsoever of a third situation. I'd suggest that's very obviously bogus. What I find revealing is that years on from the referendum it's the same crude, tired and spurious anti-Brexit arguments being trotted out. If after all this time the only tactic is Project Fear mk. infinity, what can one conclude about the supposed benefits of EU membership?
      - ben_w 6y ago
        You’re saying this on a thread whose ancestor comment (not yours, I know) was: > the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions? And you’re saying it to people who are coming up with reasons why the post-Brexit EU doesn’t share your concerns. This does not require a “cold war type situation”. It just requires every other EU member state to have more important things from their own perspective. It’s not hatred you’re seeing from the EU, it is apathy. The false dichotomy is your own.
      - 6y ago

toyg 6y ago

I did say "try". Now we cannot even try, and stuff like this happens.

blibble 6y ago
what would you expect it to even try to do with the UK present, given that EU foreign policy can be veto'ed by a single member state? several of which are keen to preserve or grow their CCP trade
- toyg 6y ago
  We are as keen as anyone - see the nuclear power plant projects and 5G. Still, is it just a coincidence that Xi accelerated his plans shortly after Brexit? Between that and Trump, we are effectively isolated and fundamentally vulnerable to this sort of power play.
  - blibble 6y ago
    > Still, is it just a coincidence that Xi accelerated his plans shortly after Brexit? most likely, I doubt the EU or UK even register on the CCP's plans for the Chinese century "delusions of grandeur"

ben_w 6y ago

They said “try”. Rest of the EU might have said “no”, but now the EU hasn’t got any more reason to listen to the UK than to listen to, say, Australia’s opinion about Hong Kong. Then there is also the reduced power of the EU post-Brexit. Just because Brexit costs the UK influence doesn’t mean it doesn’t cost the EU too — without the UK, the EU is only about 85% of the GDP of the other two big trade giants (the USA and China are each about equal to what the EU was with the UK).

growlist 6y ago
But there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align, is there? The idea that it's all or nothing is nothing more than yet another canard put about by anti-Brexit protagonists.
- toyg 6y ago
  > there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was.
  - growlist 6y ago
    > But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there is no possibility whatsoever of a third situation. I'd suggest that's very obviously bogus. What I find revealing is that years on from the referendum it's the same crude, tired and spurious anti-Brexit arguments being trotted out. If after all this time the only tactic is Project Fear mk. infinity, what can one conclude about the supposed benefits of EU membership?
    - ben_w 6y ago
      You’re saying this on a thread whose ancestor comment (not yours, I know) was: > the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions? And you’re saying it to people who are coming up with reasons why the post-Brexit EU doesn’t share your concerns. This does not require a “cold war type situation”. It just requires every other EU member state to have more important things from their own perspective. It’s not hatred you’re seeing from the EU, it is apathy. The false dichotomy is your own.
    - 6y ago