7 ms·

Is this an attempt to fill immigration gaps after EU immigration collapses? I don't believe the government actually cares about anything that going on in HK.

by akerro 6y ago

whatshisface 6y ago
Does it matter? The UK needs skilled workers and HKers need a place to live that won't try to kill them.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
toyg 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if the government thought exactly that, but I don't think it would work - HKers are mostly urban and well-educated, especially the politicized groups that are worried by Chinese rule. It's unlikely they will happily accept to become an underclass. Still, it is the decent thing to do. It also underlines once again this country has no real power or influence left in the superpower age. Before, we could at least try to get the EU to go to bat for our interests, and have a real impact. We have none of that now, which is probably part of the reason the Chinese accelerated the process.
- blibble 6y ago
  > Before, we could at least try to get the EU to go to bat for our interests, and have a real impact. the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/europe/disinformation-china-eu-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/europe/disinformati... come on
  - toyg 6y ago
    I did say "try". Now we cannot even try, and stuff like this happens.
    - blibble 6y ago
      what would you expect it to even try to do with the UK present, given that EU foreign policy can be veto'ed by a single member state? several of which are keen to preserve or grow their CCP trade
      - toyg 6y ago
        We are as keen as anyone - see the nuclear power plant projects and 5G. Still, is it just a coincidence that Xi accelerated his plans shortly after Brexit? Between that and Trump, we are effectively isolated and fundamentally vulnerable to this sort of power play.
        blibble 6y ago
        > Still, is it just a coincidence that Xi accelerated his plans shortly after Brexit? most likely, I doubt the EU or UK even register on the CCP's plans for the Chinese century "delusions of grandeur"
  - ben_w 6y ago
    They said “try”. Rest of the EU might have said “no”, but now the EU hasn’t got any more reason to listen to the UK than to listen to, say, Australia’s opinion about Hong Kong. Then there is also the reduced power of the EU post-Brexit. Just because Brexit costs the UK influence doesn’t mean it doesn’t cost the EU too — without the UK, the EU is only about 85% of the GDP of the other two big trade giants (the USA and China are each about equal to what the EU was with the UK).
    - growlist 6y ago
      But there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align, is there? The idea that it's all or nothing is nothing more than yet another canard put about by anti-Brexit protagonists.
      - toyg 6y ago
        > there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was.
        growlist 6y ago
        > But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there is no possibility whatsoever of a third situation. I'd suggest that's very obviously bogus. What I find revealing is that years on from the referendum it's the same crude, tired and spurious anti-Brexit arguments being trotted out. If after all this time the only tactic is Project Fear mk. infinity, what can one conclude about the supposed benefits of EU membership?
        ben_w 6y ago
reallydontask 6y ago
It's hard to say what this government cares about. My cynical self thinks that this is not a genuine offer but one for the headlines in a time where good news are sorely needed (Leicester lockdown, general covid-19 omnishambles) I hope my cynical self is wrong
- growlist 6y ago
  Let's not forget there are still deeply embittered anti-Brexit forces prevalent throughout the public sector.
michaelt 6y ago
It's not obviously about replacing EU immigration. Hong Kong a higher GDP per capita than the UK - and about four times the GDP per capita of the eastern European countries that provide so many workers to British farms and warehouses. Britain's motivation is they contend that this is a violation of the treaty between Britain and China from the handover of Hong Kong [1], and letting one other country violate your treaties with impunity makes other countries think they can get away with the same thing. But at the same time there's also no appetite in Britain to go head-to-head with China - in fact, if the HK stuff wasn't going on they'd be looking for a trade deal right now. So if you see something that's a response, but not a really tough muscular response, that's exactly what the UK government is aiming for. [1] https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hongkong-protests-britain/uk-says-chinas-security-law-is-serious-violation-of-hong-kong-treaty-idUKKBN2425IO https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hongkong-protests-britain/...

Is this an attempt to fill immigration gaps after EU immigration collapses? I don't believe the government actually cares about anything that going on in HK.

by akerro 6y ago

Is this an attempt to fill immigration gaps after EU immigration collapses? I don't believe the government actually cares about anything that going on in HK.

whatshisface 6y ago

Does it matter? The UK needs skilled workers and HKers need a place to live that won't try to kill them.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

toyg 6y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if the government thought exactly that, but I don't think it would work - HKers are mostly urban and well-educated, especially the politicized groups that are worried by Chinese rule. It's unlikely they will happily accept to become an underclass. Still, it is the decent thing to do. It also underlines once again this country has no real power or influence left in the superpower age. Before, we could at least try to get the EU to go to bat for our interests, and have a real impact. We have none of that now, which is probably part of the reason the Chinese accelerated the process.

blibble 6y ago
> Before, we could at least try to get the EU to go to bat for our interests, and have a real impact. the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/europe/disinformation-china-eu-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/europe/disinformati... come on
- toyg 6y ago
  I did say "try". Now we cannot even try, and stuff like this happens.
  - blibble 6y ago
    what would you expect it to even try to do with the UK present, given that EU foreign policy can be veto'ed by a single member state? several of which are keen to preserve or grow their CCP trade
    - toyg 6y ago
      We are as keen as anyone - see the nuclear power plant projects and 5G. Still, is it just a coincidence that Xi accelerated his plans shortly after Brexit? Between that and Trump, we are effectively isolated and fundamentally vulnerable to this sort of power play.
      - blibble 6y ago
        > Still, is it just a coincidence that Xi accelerated his plans shortly after Brexit? most likely, I doubt the EU or UK even register on the CCP's plans for the Chinese century "delusions of grandeur"
- ben_w 6y ago
  They said “try”. Rest of the EU might have said “no”, but now the EU hasn’t got any more reason to listen to the UK than to listen to, say, Australia’s opinion about Hong Kong. Then there is also the reduced power of the EU post-Brexit. Just because Brexit costs the UK influence doesn’t mean it doesn’t cost the EU too — without the UK, the EU is only about 85% of the GDP of the other two big trade giants (the USA and China are each about equal to what the EU was with the UK).
  - growlist 6y ago
    But there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align, is there? The idea that it's all or nothing is nothing more than yet another canard put about by anti-Brexit protagonists.
    - toyg 6y ago
      > there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was.
      - growlist 6y ago
        > But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there is no possibility whatsoever of a third situation. I'd suggest that's very obviously bogus. What I find revealing is that years on from the referendum it's the same crude, tired and spurious anti-Brexit arguments being trotted out. If after all this time the only tactic is Project Fear mk. infinity, what can one conclude about the supposed benefits of EU membership?
        ben_w 6y ago

reallydontask 6y ago

It's hard to say what this government cares about. My cynical self thinks that this is not a genuine offer but one for the headlines in a time where good news are sorely needed (Leicester lockdown, general covid-19 omnishambles) I hope my cynical self is wrong

growlist 6y ago
Let's not forget there are still deeply embittered anti-Brexit forces prevalent throughout the public sector.

michaelt 6y ago

It's not obviously about replacing EU immigration. Hong Kong a higher GDP per capita than the UK - and about four times the GDP per capita of the eastern European countries that provide so many workers to British farms and warehouses. Britain's motivation is they contend that this is a violation of the treaty between Britain and China from the handover of Hong Kong [1], and letting one other country violate your treaties with impunity makes other countries think they can get away with the same thing. But at the same time there's also no appetite in Britain to go head-to-head with China - in fact, if the HK stuff wasn't going on they'd be looking for a trade deal right now. So if you see something that's a response, but not a really tough muscular response, that's exactly what the UK government is aiming for. [1] https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hongkong-protests-britain/uk-says-chinas-security-law-is-serious-violation-of-hong-kong-treaty-idUKKBN2425IO https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hongkong-protests-britain/...